Another pre am and amp question

[Kmamac]

I have searched the forum for answers to the pre amp /amp options and to be honest I'm more confused than before! I'm hoping your collective wisdom can guide me towards a good solution for me now in my double bass playing journey.

I'm a new double bass player wanting to play jazz with fellow amateur musicians. What are my options for amplification for rehearsals and small gigs in say a pub. 

I have a j tone piezo electric pick up fitted and understand this has a very high impedance (mega ohm) and will need amplifying before a bass amp can do anything useful with its signal.

Looking at previous posts the Fishman platinum pro (£250+)  seems a popular option but does it have more than I need?

I also read of the Fishman platinum stage EQ which seems to have less features but is about £160.

The K&K pure pre amp is also spoken well of and costs  about £100+

Should I spend £100 or £250? 

Am I right in saying that with any of the above I can now plug into any s/h bass amp and get something approaching an accurate sound?

All in (pre and amp) I don't really want to go over £400.

Are there any bass combos that have a mega ohm input which negates the need for a pre amp that could be got for about £400. (or is this only high end stuff out of my price range)

As you can read I'm really confused. Bottom line is I want to be heard and only have about £400 to do it! Is this possible?

Many thanks in advance for your wisdom

Keith MM

[keeponehandloose]

Buy the Platinum Pro. It does exactly what you need. The Jtone pickup is a cheap pickup, there are many options out there which will improve your sound.

 

[jrixn1]

I have other, larger, more complicated gear for loud functions or when I'm doubling - but for jazz in pubs I really recommend a Markbass Micromark 801.  I plug my bass straight in - no preamp, EQ, HPF, etc.
https://www.markbass.it/product/micromark-801/

[Kmamac]

28 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

I have other, larger, more complicated gear for loud functions or when I'm doubling - but for jazz in pubs I really recommend a Markbass Micromark 801.  I plug my bass straight in - no preamp, EQ, HPF, etc.
https://www.markbass.it/product/micromark-801/

Thanks for your help here. Are you saying this little beauty will cope with an very high impedance piezo  pickup? ie plug straight in and get a decent double bass sound?

[Kmamac]

48 minutes ago, keeponehandloose said:

Buy the Platinum Pro. It does exactly what you need. The Jtone pickup is a cheap pickup, there are many options out there which will improve your sound.

 

Duly noted wrt the Platinum pro. Are you politely saying the Jtone pick up is maybe a bit too cheap and I should consider something a bit more 'quality' for this critical first step.

[JoeEvans]

I would really recommend using an active PA speaker instead of a bass amp, with a double bass. I use a Turbosound ip300 which is about £330; there are lots of options available, although I do very much like the tone of Turbosound speakers myself.

I go into this via an ART Tube MP preamp, which has no EQ but definitely improves the tone.

But that's all coming from a mic (Prodipe Lanen) and you might need something different with a pickup.

In all honesty the whole 'amplifying your double bass' thing is a deep rabbit hole. I was lucky enough to find a set-up that gets me exactly the sound I want without too much trouble, but it can take a lot of experiments, so buying secondhand kit you can sell on might be a good idea.

[Kmamac]

29 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

I would really recommend using an active PA speaker instead of a bass amp, with a double bass. I use a Turbosound ip300 which is about £330; there are lots of options available, although I do very much like the tone of Turbosound speakers myself.

I go into this via an ART Tube MP preamp, which has no EQ but definitely improves the tone.

But that's all coming from a mic (Prodipe Lanen) and you might need something different with a pickup.

In all honesty the whole 'amplifying your double bass' thing is a deep rabbit hole. I was lucky enough to find a set-up that gets me exactly the sound I want without too much trouble, but it can take a lot of experiments, so buying secondhand kit you can sell on might be a good idea.

Thanks Joe, I must admit I like the idea of a microphone as opposed to a  peizo pickup. Which ART tube MP preamp do you use/suggest as there seems to be a few (clearly suited to different applications). (just spotted a SH Art Tube MP Studio V3 Preamp at a good price.

Also whats the advantages of having an active PA speaker over say a bass combo amp.  

[jrixn1]

1 hour ago, Kmamac said:

Are you saying this little beauty will cope with an very high impedance piezo  pickup? ie plug straight in and get a decent double bass sound?

 

I'm not sure of the impedance of my K&K Bass Max pickup since the only thing the manual says is "high ohmic".  It is a piezo though.

 

Do I get a decent bass tone?  Well, I'm doing my best... 😬  My larger rig is an EBS Stanley Clarke preamp and a QSC CP12 or RCF 745A - nevertheless I choose to use the Micromark when possible - so I think that's your answer.

[JoeEvans]

I've got an ART Tube MP - the one without the VU meter rather than the V3, but I think they're pretty much the same thing.

Bass amps often don't provide a good response across the full frequency range - for obvious reasons they focus on the bass end... But double basses produce a lot of subtle harmonics higher up, and I've found that an active PA speaker can make the final sound more like a double bass and less like a bass guitar.

[Kmamac]

7 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

I've got an ART Tube MP - the one without the VU meter rather than the V3, but I think they're pretty much the same thing.

Bass amps often don't provide a good response across the full frequency range - for obvious reasons they focus on the bass end... But double basses produce a lot of subtle harmonics higher up, and I've found that an active PA speaker can make the final sound more like a double bass and less like a bass guitar.

Thanks - that makes perfect sense.

[keeponehandloose]

1 hour ago, Kmamac said:

Duly noted wrt the Platinum pro. Are you politely saying the Jtone pick up is maybe a bit too cheap and I should consider something a bit more 'quality' for this critical first step.

Yes.

 

[NickD]

While it's true the JTone probably isn't the greatest pickup on earth, I always found there was enough flexibility in the Platinum Pro to get a decent sound from it with whatever amp I would find in a rehearsal room. 

[NickA]

3 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

I have other, larger, more complicated gear for loud functions or when I'm doubling - but for jazz in pubs I really recommend a Markbass Micromark 801.  I plug my bass straight in - no preamp, EQ, HPF, etc.
https://www.markbass.it/product/micromark-801/

Same with my pjb flightcase.  Massive input impedance and has an HPF built in; no additional pre required. 

 

That EBS Stan Clarke looks fun and has a maybe useful variable hpf, notch filter and phase reverser ... but it's expensive for a few extra knobs.

 

Just get a quality amp and plug in.

 

Ps: I've a realist pickup and that helps

Edited December 2 by NickA

[JPJ]

My experience is that most piezo type pickups benefit from a preamp designed to cope with the high impedence. Once you have a good preamp, any bass amp or as some have suggested powered PA speaker will work fine. Again, from my experience (mostly EUB) smaller speakers seem to work best with double bass, and my own ‘go to’ gig amp is the little TC Electronics BG250 208 combo which you’ll often see pop up on here for around £150 second hand. I use the EBS Stanley Clarke preamp pedal because on most gigs I am doubling either db/EUB with fretless or fretted electric bass. 

[TheRev]

In my experience, there are two essential features that you need from a preamp for double bass - a high impedance input (10MOhm) and a high pass filter (HPF) to roll off the really low end frequencies which will really help in the battle against feedback.

The Fishman and K&K preamps both have 10MOhm input impedance, but only the Fishman units have HPF controls.

I find that with a good preamp with HPF, your choice of amp is much less critical, so in your position I'd go for the Fishman platinum pro EQ pre and then look for a second hand combo like a TC BG250 208 as suggested above.

The Fishman pro EQ is all the preamp you'll ever need, unless you start using two pickups or blending a pickup and mic, so it will see you well along your playing journey.

If you still want to squeeze the pennies, then look for the previous version of the Platinum pro EQ - the Platinum Pro. These can be found used for around £120 and has the 10MOhm input, HPF, 5 band EQ and a DI.  If you're really lucky you might find a used Fdeck HPF or similar clone for about £100 - this is a real bare bones preamp with a high impedance input, gain and variable HPF, in a tiny box that can be mounted on your tailpiece.

[Burns-bass]

https://reverb.com/uk/item/13880879-rafferty-hpf-pre-2-bass-preamp-adjustable-high-pass-filter-phase-switch-custom-color
 

FDeck clone under £100

[Burns-bass]

3 hours ago, NickA said:

Same with my pjb flightcase.  Massive input impedance and has an HPF built in; no additional pre required. 

 

That EBS Stan Clarke looks fun and has a maybe useful variable hpf, notch filter and phase reverser ... but it's expensive for a few extra knobs.

 

Just get a quality amp and plug in.

 

Ps: I've a realist pickup and that helps

Stanley Clarke pre amp is wonderful bit of kit. Perfect for DB and also if you need to switch between upright and electric as well as sending a signal to front of house.

 

Used mine for 60 or more gigs this year and it’s been flawless. Notch filter is very responsive to the environment.

 

Probably overkill if you play at home or in the same place or a small and acoustically stable environment, but when I have to adapt to a different room most times it’s great. (But not cheap!)

[keeponehandloose]

Whatever you decide make sure it has an HPF. 

[tinyd]

I own a Platinum Pro and an FDeck but I always had results that were fine going straight from pickup into my amps (formerly GK MB150 and now Warwick Gnome). This is true for all the pickups I've used, including a J-Tone.

I'm not saying don't get a preamp/HPF, but I'd try without before spending money on one.

[bassace]

Depends how you -and others- value your sound. I’d never go to a gig without HPF and impedance matching.

[Dan Earp]

On 02/12/2024 at 16:09, jrixn1 said:

I have other, larger, more complicated gear for loud functions or when I'm doubling - but for jazz in pubs I really recommend a Markbass Micromark 801.  I plug my bass straight in - no preamp, EQ, HPF, etc.
https://www.markbass.it/product/micromark-801/

I have  the 602. Two six inch speakers and a tweeter. Makes my eub sound like a double bass, brilliant. I use it for rehearsals and quiet pub gigs, open mikes and the like …but for playing rock with the band  I revert to eich/sysis. But I cannot recommend it more. Replacement model is called 802

[NickA]

20 hours ago, keeponehandloose said:

Whatever you decide make sure it has an HPF. 

Pretty much all amps do. Pjb and Mark bass for sure.   It's fixed is all, so no tweaking. 

 

I play my double bass through a realist sound clip & pjb flightcase in all kinds of places and never had a low frequency issue.  Sometimes turn up the low bass and high bass EQ knobs if there's not enough room reinforcement.

 

Tempted by the EBS Stan Clarke ( for all the reason NS quoted by @Burns-bass) but it's yet more kit to lug about.

[Burns-bass]

6 minutes ago, NickA said:

Pretty much all amps do. Pjb and Mark bass for sure.   It's fixed is all, so no tweaking. 

 

I play my double bass through a realist sound clip & pjb flightcase in all kinds of places and never had a low frequency issue.  Sometimes turn up the low bass and high bass EQ knobs if there's not enough room reinforcement.

 

Tempted by the EBS Stan Clarke ( for all the reason NS quoted by @Burns-bass) but it's yet more kit to lug about.

 

Apperciate the insight here.

 

I need a small practice amp for home and basic band stuff. Would you recommend the PJB or Markbass? 

 

Price wise they're the same ballpark and I'd be buying new. (Any small difference in price doesn't really bother me as I've got 12 gigs this December so that'll more than pay for it).

 

 

[NickA]

I've played a double bass through MarkBass and PJB kit recently and frankly it's hard to get a fag paper between them.  Despite totally different tech (PJB has 4x 5" speakers and no tweeter . MB has 1x 12" and a tweeter) they both do the job really well.

 

My amp is a PJB flightcase (BG-150). Not very loud so plumbed into a PB300 powered cab for bigger gigs.  Both of them have PJB's (discontinued)  "neo-power" drivers which are very "HiFi" and a bit soft; nice for jazz on a DB but a bit short of thwack, thump and sparkle (to use tech terms!).

 

The MB combo is Martin Spencer's (our local Bass pro) and I think is a CMD 121P.  Bit bigger than my BG-150 but  louder and a bit brigher when all that "VLF VPF" nonsense is turned off.  He has a micro-mark I've used too; also OK but limited in controls and volume..

 

If you're buying new then I guess it's between the PJB BG-450 and the Markbass MB58R Mini 121; both of these have bigger amps than the internal drivers so can power a passive external cab..  I've not tried a DB through either, but I did try my fretless electric through a BG-400 in bass direct. BG400 and BG450 have PJB's newer (and heavier)  "piranha" drivers and sound a bit brigher than the neo-power PJB kit. 

 

As I say .. probably makes no odds which you go for.  I can vouch for the PJB stuff (if you can find one!) but the MB stuff also sounds good.  Here's Martin playing live through his Markbass 121:  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Owen]

On 02/12/2024 at 23:29, Burns-bass said:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/13880879-rafferty-hpf-pre-2-bass-preamp-adjustable-high-pass-filter-phase-switch-custom-color
 

FDeck clone under £100

This is the answer you are looking for. If you plug the J Tone into your amp and it sounds fine, then it is fine. If it does not sound fine (weedy) then it is because (as you have said) the pickup needs to see a higher impedance. Any FDeck thang will do all you need. You can spend more (I have - frequently) but this does the fundamentals just fine and dandy.

 

This 

is actually even better value than the Rafferty. I use one as my buffer and I do love being able to wipe a touch of the top end off as well.