Tell me about Rick-o-sound: gimmick or useful?

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I'm looking into acquiring a 4003 which has the famous rick-o-sound output whereby the bridge and neck pickups can be sent to different amplifiers, with the bridge pickup optionally having a bass cut.

 

Who has

1. Tried this?
2. Continued to use it after trying it?

 

I've been looking into what I'd need to buy to try it out, and these two items look like they'll do the job:

 

Old Blood Noise Endeavors Split Meld HK (£22)

Jack 6.3 mm TRS (stereo/balanced) male to jack 6.3 mm TRS (stereo/balanced) male cable (£8.30)

 

Then I'd use a couple of standard mono guitar cables to feed the neck pickup into my usual Ashdown ABM600 rig, and the bridge pickup into my Fender mustang GTX 100 guitar combo with a suitably gnarly tone.

 

I'm expecting this to be a bit of fun and useful for recording but possibly not worth the hassle for gigs.

[joel406]

If I remember correctly, the 4003 should come with the Rick-O-Sound cable. If you don't have the cable, you're not doing it right. And I once looked into this, and I believe the "running each pickup into separate amps" ain't exactly what it does. I would need to google but my conclusion to the whole thing was a bunch to do about nothing. Unless you're looking to setup something for a recording session it could be useful. But for a live situation? Unless you're doing arenas. No point. And even then... A good pedal board makes the whole deal a no go. Are the gigs you play equipped will giant stages? Everyone here is making the best of the tiny areas they give us to setup. You wanna bar gig with 2 amps? Stage volume is not your friend.

Edited December 6 by joel406

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

This link -> https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/rickenbacker-what-is-rick-o-sound/ confirms my understanding of how it works. My guitar amp is light, so perching it on top of the bass rig is possible which isn't going to take up any additional floor space. Also both of the amps have knobs to control the volume, so it doesn't need to get any louder.

[joel406]

33 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

This link -> https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/rickenbacker-what-is-rick-o-sound/ confirms my understanding of how it works. My guitar amp is light, so perching it on top of the bass rig is possible which isn't going to take up any additional floor space. Also both of the amps have knobs to control the volume, so it doesn't need to get any louder.

You really think it's going to make any difference in your sound? Something like what you describe is not what the people at Rickenbacker had in mind. It will be hard to control of the fly. And likely just sound awful. Mixed drivers and all. I think Chris Squier used Rick-O-Sound in the early days. Once IEMS got good, I'm sure that changed. And Geddy was always sporting SVTs in the early days. Then left the Ric and went back to Fender. Well, after a torrid love affair with a Wal.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I don't know — which is why I have asked for insights from people who have actually used it. Have you used it?

 

 

Edited December 7 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[joel406]

Nobody tries it. I've never seen anyone try it. I looked at it and said what's the point. In today's world it is pointless.

 

Dude build what ya want. I have 2 800-watt Mesa Boogie stacks I'll probably never use. But their fun to have. And sometimes I take a cab out to a jam session. But live? Think... A great pedal board and quality IEMS. It's the 21st century. Stage volume needs to be as low as possible. You're going the wrong direction.

Edited December 7 by joel406

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I started this thread asking for input from people who have actually used rick-o-sound. As you have not used it, this thread is not for you.

 

If no one has tried rick-o-sound, I fully expect this thread will be:

 

If/when I do acquire a 4003, I will try rick-o-sound, and will post about how it works for me. If I do find it to be pointless, that is what I will post, however I will keep an open mind until then.

[Norris]

I had a play around with it at home but not live.

 

Yes, you'll need a lead with a stereo jack plug one end, that splits into two mono cables to go to the two amps. You've basically then got two signal chains, one from each pickup, so could run whatever effects you want on each.

 

I think most people don't bother because it's a lot of extra kit to carry around for little benefit tbh. It's a novelty that didn't really catch on.

 

The vintage tone circuit is something completely different. That switches in a different value capacitor to make it sound like the early 4001/4002 basses did - less bottom end, more glorious clank. Modern basses have a deeper bottom end but with the loss of the clankiness. My 4003 is a fairly early one and didn't have the vintage tone circuit from the factory, so I retro-fitted one myself

[Norris]

3 hours ago, joel406 said:

And I once looked into this, and I believe the "running each pickup into separate amps" ain't exactly what it does

Nope, that's exactly what it does. There's no clever circuitry or batteries in there

[FlatEric]

7 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

I started this thread asking for input from people who have actually used rick-o-sound. As you have not used it, this thread is not for you.

 

If no one has tried rick-o-sound, I fully expect this thread will be:

 

If/when I do acquire a 4003, I will try rick-o-sound, and will post about how it works for me. If I do find it to be pointless, that is what I will post, however I will keep an open mind until then.

 

I have tried it - running each pick-up into different amps, but not with a genuine Ric. I have done this with two basses, an Aria Pro II "Faker" and Ovation Magnum, which also has a stereo output. I used the Magnum lead on the Aria.

The user manual for the Magnum describes using the Normal and Bright channels on the same amp.

It then goes on to describe using two amps.

 

I can't say that I took to it. Yes, different sounds could be got but nothing spectacular. The other thing, during the only rehearsal I used the set-up, my "Six String Colleague" commented. . . . "what the BLEEP is going on here? He put up with it for the evening and then told me not to bother again!! 

 

Magnum Stereo There is a link near the end which takes you to the Ovation manual - an interesting read on its own.

 

The Aria, I messed around with myself, using effects as well. Again, entertaining but nothing I would use on a gig.

Bit of a novelty that you could use. . . . or not. 

 

Aria Stereo Bass

 

As you say, if you get the Ric, let us all know your thoughts.👍

 

Cheers. 😊

 

 

 

[Skybone]

Must admit, I have never tried it, as I only have 1 amp (either the dual output or the stereo output to a splitter).

 

There is definitely a bass cut on the neck pickup at full volume, roll it off a tad, and it comes back nicely. I've tried the Vintage Circuit a few times, but again, it seems as though it's a bass cut.

[prowla]

I've used Rick-O-Sound to send the Bass pickup to one amp and the Treble pickup to another, or two channels of the same amp, or a mixer.

It means you can optimise the sound for each pickup and eliminate interactions between the two (Geddy Lee used the stereo capability).

The ROS cable is nothing special - just a stereo splitter; you can also buy expensive boxes to do the function, or this is my DIY "Hack-O-Sound" one (stereo/TRS jack input one side and 2x mono outputs the other).

 

 

One of the downsides of using stereo is that you need stereo effects to use it or you route the pickups via separate Fx paths (that's what Chris Squire used stereo for), so it adds complexity to a pedalboard.

Oftentimes, though, I just use the mono output to avoid the faff.

 

Edited December 7 by prowla

[NancyJohnson]

I had a 4003 and tried it.

 

Rig wise I was running multiple Hartke HyDrive cabinets (a choice from 1x15, 4x10 and 2x10) and a Matrix stereo power amp.

 

Set up was reasonably straightforward; I ran a stereo cable from the bass into a Sansamp BDDI (or RBI) and a GT2; I'd favour the neck pickup into the BDDI (run slightly dirty) and the bridge into the GT2 (which was quite a bit gnarly,).  These units ran into each side of the Matrix and then into the cabs.  I preferred the bridge/GT2 to go into the 2x10 with the horn full on and the neck into either the 15" or 4x10 with the horn rolled back.  To be honest, because the poweramp and RBI were racked up, I only needed to carry the GT2.  I always giggled with two cabinets.

 

It was interesting to experiment and have this percieved additional level of control, given each pickup was going through different circuitry.  It was kind of fine if you were just playing off your amp with nothing going through front of house, but sound guys generally just want a quick turnaround and found having to run bass through two channels an irritant.  Recording was great fun.

 

I suppose in hindsight it was just easier to go the mono output; it sounded fine that way as well.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

11 hours ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

I started this thread asking for input from people who have actually used rick-o-sound. As you have not used it, this thread is not for you.

 

If no one has tried rick-o-sound, I fully expect this thread will be:

 

If/when I do acquire a 4003, I will try rick-o-sound, and will post about how it works for me. If I do find it to be pointless, that is what I will post, however I will keep an open mind until then.

I've owned several Ricks and have often experimented with Rick-O-Sound. For me it's the only way to get "that" tone I grew up chasing - Hemispheres, Close To The Edge. You can certainly get close to it running mono, and there are a lot of pedals and devices available these days to get close to it - the Tech 21 Dug in particular. That said there is nothing quite like running a Rick in stereo at volume.

 

You don't necessarily have to use a guitar amp either - in fact a lot of people on YouTube showing of Rick-O-Sound seem to miss the point somewhat, running the neck pickup through a bass amp and the bridge pickup through a small guitar amp, ramping up the distortion and getting a strange disconnected sound that doesn't sound good to my ears at all.

 

In a way it's the deficiencies of the instrument that make Rick-O-Sound necessary - the top end and growl of the bridge pickup is unbeatable but it struggles in the low end* so running the neck pickup separately gives you the big lows back. I adore Rickenbackers but acknowledge they do have plenty of foibles you have to deal with 😄

 

 

The real RIC splitter boxes are ridiculously overpriced. If you're handy with wires and a soldering iron it wouldn't be hard to cobble together a splitter box but if not Raygun FX can knock one together for not a lot of money.

 

Bottom line - if you're getting a Rick there's no reason at all not to give it a go! I'm surprised to see such strong negative reactions to the idea, that's something more common on Talkbass.

 

* The current 4003 uses overwound pickups so they're a lot hotter and fatter but lose detail on top.

[Woodinblack]

Chris squire always played that way.

Its actually easier to deal with now, if you have something like a helix (other brands are available) with stereo inputs you can just use a stereo to mono cable (or even a stereo wireless - lekato do one) and setup one channel per pickup, can probably get some good sounds that way. I use stereo quite a bit as the chapman stick is stereo, although that is more obviously useful as the bass comes out one side and treble the other, so processing is good and my rick is a 4004 so no ric'o'sound.

Easiest way is if you have a 4003, just try it. All you need is a stereo to dual mono adapter which costs a couple of quid at most, and see if you can make a good sound with it that makes it worth it, don't be put off by what people who haven't tried it or it isn't part of their sound do, its what it sounds like to you that matters. I would certainly use it if I had it.

[Maude]

I haven't used ROS but it surely can be used in other ways than two amps. 

I use a Line 6 X3 which has two completely separate signal paths through the effects. You could put one pickup through the preamp, eq, compressor and the other through distortion or overdrive and get a huge sound but with a very clear bottom end, or any other other variation. Or to an amp with two channels. 

Could the EBS Billy Sheehan drive pedals be used as the Yammy Attitude has two outputs? 

Probably all sorts could be done without having to lug loads of gear around. 

[PinkMohawk]

I've done the split pickups to different amps thing before and, contrary to basically everyone in this thread, bar a few, I love it. If you set it up right, it'll sound massive. I am one of the guys who was running the neck to a bass head and 2x15, with the bridge going to a Hiwatt solid state guitar head and my 8x10, through separate effects chains on my board as well. It gave me a lot of flexibility. And, I think the trick to not making the sounds 'disconnected' as someone mentioned, is not having the neck pickup signal be completely clean, I'd do a little dirt, sort of a Sansamp sound on that side, and the result was huge. 

 

As for the 'stage volume bad!' comments, it's really not. Can it make it a little more challenging to work the desk? Sure, but on the other side of it, us engineers are used to that. If anyone here has seen Biffy Clyro live in the last couple years, Simon Neil runs 3 separate 4x12 cabs on stage, all at full volume, pointed right at his vocal mic, and they are all pushing air multiple times during their set. Jon, their engineer, was the one who suggested they move back to actual amps rather than modelling through Kempers, because the band didn't actually like the sound of the modellers but thought it was necessary for the engineer to have no bleed on stage. Plus, those on stage amps, those are your front fills when the PA doesn't have any. 

[NancyJohnson]

6 hours ago, prowla said:

I've used Rick-O-Sound to send the Bass pickup to one amp and the Treble pickup to another, or two channels of the same amp, or a mixer.

It means you can optimise the sound for each pickup and eliminate interactions between the two (Geddy Lee used the stereo capability).

The ROS cable is nothing special - just a stereo splitter; you can also buy expensive boxes to do the function, or this is my DIY "Hack-O-Sound" one (stereo/TRS jack input one side and 2x mono outputs the other).

 

 

One of the downsides of using stereo is that you need stereo effects to use it or you route the pickups via separate Fx paths (that's what Chris Squire used stereo for), so it adds complexity to a pedalboard.

Oftentimes, though, I just use the mono output to avoid the faff.

 

 

I'd heard about the Rick-O-Sound box previously.  So is it just a glorified ABY box?  Allowing you to take a stereo out and recombine to mono?  ie two in/one out?

 

 

 

[Woodinblack]

12 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

I'd heard about the Rick-O-Sound box previously.  So is it just a glorified ABY box?  Allowing you to take a stereo out and recombine to mono?  ie two in/one out?

 

I would assume one stereo in, two mono out

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

From what I've been able to discover, the Old Blood Noise Endeavors Split Meld HK I linked in the original post should do the job as it can split the single 1/4" stereo input into dual mono outputs for £22 which is not a lot more than I could build one for — and it will be a bit neater and less hassle.

[prowla]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I would assume one stereo in, two mono out

Yep - my box shows 1x stereo (TRS) in -> 2x mono out.

The Ric internal wiring is the two channels are discrete right up to the output jacks.

The stereo TRS out has Tip=Treble pickup signal, Ring=Bass (neck) pickup signal, Sleeve=Gnd.

When you plug a jack into the Normal/Mono output it pushes a contact to combine the Treble & Bass pickup signals together.

[prowla]

6 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

From what I've been able to discover, the Old Blood Noise Endeavors Split Meld HK I linked in the original post should do the job as it can split the single 1/4" stereo input into dual mono outputs for £22 which is not a lot more than I could build one for — and it will be a bit neater and less hassle.

Yes, it says: "Simple stereo TRS to dual-mono TS splitter".

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

5 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

...if you have something like a helix (other brands are available) with stereo inputs you can just use a stereo to mono cable (or even a stereo wireless - lekato do one) and setup one channel per pickup, can probably get some good sounds that way....

I would never have thought of this. An HX stomp can process L & R as separate chains so would probably be ideal for this as an additional option to process each pickup individually.

 

Edited December 7 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[Skybone]

Another reason to fuel my GAS for a HX Stomp...  

[meterman]

I often wondered if the 1970s Ric copies went as far as featuring this?

 

Hond-O-Sound?

 

Shaft-O-Sound?

 

Ib-O-Sound?

 

Someone must have copied it, surely? I want to hear it now!