Using A - 432Hz Tuning

[Nodd]

Yesterday I was recording a few demoes with my band when the subject of tuning parameters came up.

it had been suggested that we use the A @ 432Hz as the datum pitch.

Can't say I had problem with it as it was such a small drop - 8Hz from 440Hz the 'standard' pitch.

The singer seemed to enjoy a small amount of comfort from the change, he already tended to favour Eb as a key,

 

Obvs the drop made no difference to the challenges of playing bass in Eb on a conventionally tuned 4 string.

Has anyone else come across this?

It seems to be gaining traction as an alternative to the albeit rather arbitrary A-44Hz.

 

Any opinions /

 

 

 

 

[itu]

You can record something and then play it faster to reach 440. It sounds different.

 

It is pretty hard to add an acoustic piano to your band.

[fretmeister]

There’s a huge amount of horseshit about 440 being “evil” and 432 being the natural harmonic of the universe.

 

its bollocks.

 

Tune to whatever reference pitch you like. Just don’t expect pianists, wind guys and just about any other traditional instrument player to invite you to play! 

[Nodd]

Actually, the studio pianos were all in A- 432Hz. Wind and brass wouldn’t have a problem as they’re variable pitch.

I wonder if folks with perfect pitch would hear the difference? 
 

I also get the lack of cogent reasoning for it, but aren’t some of us meant to be ‘artists’ ? amenable to non-conventional reasoning?

 

I don’t get it but, that’s the reason for asking
 

 

[Happy Jack]

I've been in this situation accidentally when the singer/songwriter I was sideman to reset his tuner to 430 by mistake. I was on DB so I kept assuming the problem was my intonation.

 

It was two rehearsals and a gig before I finally called him out on it and the truth emerged.

 

This may have left me somewhat jaundiced but choosing a different "standard tuning" - a contradiction in terms if ever there was one - seems utterly pointless. 

 

The best you can hope for is that it won't lead to an embarrassing cockup, there is no actual upside. 

 

[meterman]

I confess I don't have any answers about a drop of 8Hz but for years I thought everything was automatically in A440Hz. It was only when I bought a vibraphone, which was in A442Hz if I remember correctly, that I realised there were other options. I recorded it along with other instruments in A440Hz and never noticed any difference. Still don't understand any of it. 

[Mottlefeeder]

Interesting history of tuning here.

https://jakubmarian.com/the-432-hz-vs-440-hz-conspiracy-theory/

David

[MichaelDean]

The only time I've had to deal with alternate tunings like that was for a band I was planning on auditioning for. They wanted me to record a bassline to a song. I couldn't get in tune with it though. I eventually emailed and he said it was something like 432Hz. I decided then and there that I couldn't be arsed 😅

[itu]

This guy wrote BS about time, but one single part of the western tuning is pretty well documented there.

 

Many tuners have 415 Hz as an option, because it has been thought as a Baroque A. Several bands that play old music tend to tune higher (like 441 - 445 Hz) to sound "clearer".

 

As you can see from the history, absolute hearing is learnt from the music heard around us. It is not (and cannot be) something truly absolute. Some people just have a better memory of pitches. 432 Hz is as good as 442 Hz.

 

Eastern music may divide an octave to, say 31 pitches, which leads us to understand, that pitches, and their relative distances are just an agreement.

[Rosie C]

4 hours ago, Nodd said:

It seems to be gaining traction as an alternative to the albeit rather arbitrary A-44Hz.

 

Any opinions /

 

 

In some ways it's easier than changing key, providing the instruments can all change. I play piano accordion which is in A=440, and that just can't change. I gave up collaborating with a guitarist who didn't tune to A=440 and sent me recordings to play along to   

[PinkMohawk]

Just tune to Eb, it's always struck me as pointless, something pretentious art school types do in place of actually doing something interesting. 

[zbd1960]

Tuning and temperaments are a very substantial set of rabbit holes you can fall into....

 

The history of tuning is complex... Ignoring a pile of history and complexity, essentially A=440Hz was 'settled' as a standard in the early to mid-C20th. If you look at the history of it, it has varied significantly - even from one town to another - from A=380 to A=460 and no doubt more besides.

 

The idea that A=432Hz has some sort of universal harmonic resonance that harmonises with your crystals and chakras... is a heap of steaming ordure.

 

The 'historically informed performance' movement has 'settled' on A=415Hz which is about a semi-tone down from concert A. This helps a lot with gut strings as the tension is a bit lower. It also makes singing the high notes a bit easier since as a bass those top F#s in Handel and Bach are down to being Fs. Whenever I've sung baroque repertoire with a period instrument orchestra it's always at A=415.

 

I play the viol (viola da gamba) and that has gut strings. If I'm playing with say recorders which are A440 then I ahve to tune the viol up to that and it's always a worry about the possibility of strings snapping - which does happen. It's a serious issue with the higher stirngs as they tend to be plain gut, the lower strings are usually twisted gut which are stronger and the lowest strings may be wire wound as well (viols have a common ancestry with guitars and mostly have 6 strings)    

[tauzero]

4 hours ago, Mottlefeeder said:

Interesting history of tuning here.

https://jakubmarian.com/the-432-hz-vs-440-hz-conspiracy-theory/

David

 

Makes exactly the same point as I would about numerology - the number 432 relies on the duration of a second, and a second is an arbitrary quantity.

[joel406]

A lot of bands tune down a half step. Van Halen, Kiss, Guns & Roses. I think all their albums are that way. We tune down a half step. For no other reason I think then to make it a little easier for our vocals. As to what's right. Best guess. Whatever works. I was playing with a group of guys who would tune down a half step. Then we would still play the songs as they were on the original recording. So, stuff that was tuned down to start with ended up a whole step down. Another band found us rekeying some songs as much as a fifth, always this was to accommodate vocalist.

[zbd1960]

5 hours ago, joel406 said:

A lot of bands tune down a half step. Van Halen, Kiss, Guns & Roses. I think all their albums are that way. We tune down a half step. For no other reason I think then to make it a little easier for our vocals. As to what's right. Best guess. Whatever works. I was playing with a group of guys who would tune down a half step. Then we would still play the songs as they were on the original recording. So, stuff that was tuned down to start with ended up a whole step down. Another band found us rekeying some songs as much as a fifth, always this was to accommodate vocalist.

Most songs in the classical repertoire, when you order the music you usually have a choice of high/medium/low voice. This means there are three editions in three keys to accommodate different voice types. So sopranos and tenors would opt for 'high' and altos and basses for 'low'. Some have the 'medium' option which can be useful if you're a baritone/second tenor/mezzo

[TimR]

Why? 

[Hellzero]

Listen to old/early blues recordings and you'll notice that they are tuned to the "how the most difficult to tune is right now", so it can be anything and even, to modern, ears, totally out of tune, but as they were all untuned to the same frequency, everything works.

 

The "worst" are the solo guitarists, who were very often totally untuned, but they were making music without any problem as their instrument had strings tuned to themselves.

 

Also learn Indian music or go to an Indian music concert, and you'll notice that first the pitch is decided by the singer and second he/she exposes the intervals which are never fixed and decided by the singer just before the event.

 

In their music theory, the notes in their multiple scales all have the same name (sa ri ga ma pa dha ni), but the intervals and the pitch are not fixed, which is very clever and that's the reason of the adjustable (moveable?) frets on the sitar.

 

Tuning to a fixed frequency is just for the ease of interpreting "classical" music the same way anywhere in the world.

[zbd1960]

2 hours ago, Hellzero said:

.... Tuning to a fixed frequency is just for the ease of interpreting "classical" music the same way anywhere in the world.

Historically, tuning was 'local'. Tuning for singers would be whatever the church organ was. Whatever the local music teacher's tuning fork said etc. Pitch standardisation became more of a necessity once musicians are travelling and people from different areas have to play together.  

[pete.young]

16 hours ago, Rosie C said:

 

In some ways it's easier than changing key, providing the instruments can all change. I play piano accordion which is in A=440, and that just can't change. I gave up collaborating with a guitarist who didn't tune to A=440 and sent me recordings to play along to   

Get yourself a Roland V-Accordion Rosie, you'll be amazed at what it can do.

[Beer of the Bass]

 

20 hours ago, fretmeister said:

There’s a huge amount of horseshit about 440 being “evil” and 432 being the natural harmonic of the universe.

 

its bollocks.

 

Tune to whatever reference pitch you like. Just don’t expect pianists, wind guys and just about any other traditional instrument player to invite you to play! 

 

I'm a little wary of the 432 thing because, while deciding you prefer a different pitch is quite harmless in itself, people rarely have just one unusual belief and once you open yourself to the conspiracy worldview, some of the ideas going around are a lot less benign.

[PinkMohawk]

34 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said:

 

 

I'm a little wary of the 432 thing because, while deciding you prefer a different pitch is quite harmless in itself, people rarely have just one unusual belief and once you open yourself to the conspiracy worldview, some of the ideas going around are a lot less benign.

Mhm, it's a short step from A 432Hz is correct and 440 is evil, to flat earth, aliens building pyramids, etc. The only people I've actually heard espousing 432 are those kinds of conspiracy nuts online, and it's usually a part of how "Things are being hidden from you!!!!!" type videos where they claim that they've got the truth. 

[Rosie C]

1 hour ago, pete.young said:

Get yourself a Roland V-Accordion Rosie, you'll be amazed at what it can do.

 

I'd love one, but they are a bit pricey. I make do with a somewhat battered 1980s Hohner.

That said, it feels like it's due for tuning, and at £500 a time, it wouldn't take much to get a second hand Roland, something like the FR-3XB. 

[Woodwind]

21 hours ago, Nodd said:

Actually, the studio pianos were all in A- 432Hz. Wind and brass wouldn’t have a problem as they’re variable pitch.I wonder if folks with perfect pitch would hear the difference? 

 

 

 

I wouldn't be able to get my instrument down to 432 without physical modification.

 

I was regularly commissioned to make crooks for bassoonists returning from positions in European orchestras so they could tune to 440 better (for example 442/443 is the norm in Germany).

 

 

Until not that long ago the UK used two pitches 440 and 452(or something close). high Pitch stayed on in brass bands after it had died out in orchestras.

 

If you're enjoying the lower tuning why not go baroque and tune to 415? (Which is basically half a step/semitone down)

 

 

[joel406]

I recall a story about the stones. Richards coming into the studio and saying. Ok lads, everyone tune to this (striking a note on his guitar) and let's get going. Their tunning ending up somewhere between A and G#. 

[knirirr]

Adam Neely did an interesting video on A=432