Enjoyment from complex lines??

[la bam]

Hi all, 

 

I was thinking the other day about bass lines, complex ones, simple ones, and lots in styles I'm not naturally coherent with. 

 

But that got me thinking... Do you get lots of enjoyment from playing complex lines or do you get more enjoyment from (perceived) simple lines? 

 

I play and have played all sorts, and covering all abilities, but I've gotten most enjoyment from lines like 'she sells sanctuary' - locking in and really driving the song - rather than more complex lines. 

 

So, for those of you who play the complex stuff - do you really enjoy playing it literally as you are playing it, or like the fact that you have played it once finished? 

[Woodinblack]

I can get enjoyment from all sorts although if something is too simple I have to really concentrate to not get distracted and lose my place. But although in general I am ok playing the straight stuff, I couldn't do more than a couple of songs of it, an prefer something a bit more interesting for enjoyment while playing - I don't really get enjoyment having done something unless I am practicing to myself

[Lozz196]

Not fence sitting but both. I really enjoy playing Dio-era Rainbow, Led Zep, Kansas type basslines but similarly am more than happy to groove along on AC/DC. 

[Doctor J]

I get a kick out of great songs with the right bassline. That can be Cliff Williams or it can be Tony Choy or anywhere inbetween. They're very different disciplines on the same instrument but neither is superior to the other when they fit the music so well. I dig the rhythm section part of bass playing so when that all locks in I'm happy, it's all good no matter how simple or complex it is.

Edited December 9 by Doctor J

[Dad3353]

As a drummer, playing in a variety of styles, one has to be comfortable with the notion of passing quite some time with basic 'four to the floor' drum patterns, as quite a lot of rock/pop music has this at its core. There are often enough occasions where a sly hi-hat lift at a judicious moment can punctuate the proceedings, or surreptitiously sticking a 'three against four' rhythm to a ride cymbal, to vary the 'pulse', can be worked in, so there is no place for boredom, as long as the audience are not disturbed in their enjoyment. A whole evening of more complex stuff (SOAD, Trust, some Bowie etc...) makes one appreciate the more basic patterns, when they are suitable; it becomes less pleasurable when the drumming is unnecessarily complex, or just simply 'odd' (Muse..? There are others...), where one is obliged to metaphorically fit square patterns into round holes, though. Simple is fine, complex is fine; a healthy mix is best. The essential is that it be appropriate for the music and the occasion. 

[ARGH]

It really depends on the tune, though if its a tough line, it feels like a victory when I nail it.

 

[chris_b]

I'll have a go at anything, but my preference is to be simple and effective.

[tauzero]

Some songs I'm happy chugging along on root notes - Sanctuary is one, With or without you is another. Other root note chuggers I'm not so keen on - Dakota and Don't look back in anger stand out among those. I generally prefer something a bit more complex, or that I can play around with without buggering up the song (I don't believe in this "less is more" thing).

[OliverBlackman]

I don’t gig and merely play to learn and develop. I think that context is important in why I prefer to learn complex lines - it helps me develop my musical choices (gives more options). I’m also learning guitar and piano so on those instruments I only play simple stuff.

[BassTractor]

Thoroughly in the "what the song needs" camp.
Happily though, every song needs a complex line.
 

[Misdee]

  Some bass parts are fun to play, some less so.  Whether they are complicated or difficult doesn't really matter.

 

When I started playing I naturally gravitated towards busy players. Also, my bass teacher fancied himself as a jazzer and was dismissive of most  electric players who weren't Stanley Clarke or Jaco. Playing with a pick was completely forbidden, for example.

 

However, something I've learnt from my personal journey playing the bass is that I can be very wrong to assume that less busy bass lines are necessarily easy, and some bass players are very crafty in hiding the difficulties  of their bass parts.

 

Cliff Williams is a prime example. If you listen carefully he often puts all kinds of subtle variations in his lines that make them work so well. Making that band rock like they do is no mean feat. John McVie is another example of a very crafty bass player whose skills I have learnt to appreciate, not to mention Paul McCartney. I really respect those kinds of players and it's always fun to learn their bass parts.

 

By the same token, I love to learn Norman Watt Roy basslines and he's no slouch. Sometimes he plays simple, sometimes he plays busy, but whatever he plays is always so clever. The individual bits are often straightforward, but the way he puts them together is genius. You could say the same about Robbie Shakespeare. 

 

YouTube is full of bright young virtuoso bassists of varying styles, but the thing that most of them have in common is that they cannot  find of anything worthwhile to do with their skills. Nothing they play is memorable or particularly interesting. That kind of complex playing doesn't interest me in the slightest. I like bass players who are creative and have a style, then it doesn't matter if the bassline is complex or simple.

[BigRedX]

I'm happiest playing something that enhances the song. It can be simple or (relatively) complicated.

[Bassybert]

Being a big fan of players like Stu Cook, John McVie, Duck Dunn and forum favourite Adam Clayton, I love simpler groove orientated lines locked in with a drummer. 
 

I’m also a big fan of players like David Wm Sims from the Jesus Lizard and Dave Allen from Gang of Four who play fairly complex lines sometimes and although i enjoy playing them I find it more taxing and somehow less enjoyable. 
 

That might be limitations of my ability though 😂

Edited December 10 by Bassybert

[jazzyvee]

I relish the challenge of playing complex lines and getting them down is an achievement. At the moment i have decided to 'try' to learn The duel of the tryant and the jester from Return to forever's album RomanticWarrior. The album is filled with simple and effective and full bore complexity bass lines. 
I also do reggae which, though mostly uncomplicated, is a great exercise in consistency, restraint an holding down a groove. Something i really enjoy.

So i guess i love both.

[diskwave]

Ive always gone for melodic accuracy and musicality and that can be either one note per bar or a trillion notes per bar. If the bass part doesnt make music then I'll play it with less enthusiasm than a part that really fits the tune and makes it sparkle.

[bass_dinger]

I do like a busy bass line - especially with chromatic runs in them. 

 

It feels like an opportunity to take my playing up a level. So:

You're my first my last my everything 

Silly Love Songs 

Signed Sealed Delivered 

Christmas Wrapping 

 

It's great fun to drive a song along. 

 

By practicing harder stuff, I can play other  stuff more easily. 

 

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, Misdee said:

  

However, something I've learnt from my personal journey playing the bass is that I can be very wrong to assume that less busy bass lines are necessarily easy, and some bass players are very crafty in hiding the difficulties  of their bass parts.

 

Cliff Williams is a prime example. If you listen carefully he often puts all kinds of subtle variations in his lines that make them work so well. Making that band rock like they do is no mean feat.

Definitely, Cliff Williams is a master at this, even his note choices, such as playing a C# when the guitars play an A on Back in Black for example, really add to the song but to the untrained ear just sounds "easy peasy". It`s only in the last few years I`ve started to learn AC/DC songs and there is much more to them than would be thought. Makes them great to play imo.

[MacDaddy]

17 hours ago, la bam said:

Hi all, 

 

I was thinking the other day about bass lines, complex ones, simple ones, and lots in styles I'm not naturally coherent with. 

 

But that got me thinking... Do you get lots of enjoyment from playing complex lines or do you get more enjoyment from (perceived) simple lines? 

 

I play and have played all sorts, and covering all abilities, but I've gotten most enjoyment from lines like 'she sells sanctuary' - locking in and really driving the song - rather than more complex lines. 

 

So, for those of you who play the complex stuff - do you really enjoy playing it literally as you are playing it, or like the fact that you have played it once finished? 

 

 

Complex lines are only complex if you can't play them. Rhythm Stick had a big learning curve, but once I nailed it, it flowed quite easily (tbh I need to brush up on it now).

I don't find tapping complex, I know some do.

Some don't find slapping complex, I do.

It's all relative.

[Grooverjr]

Interesting topic.

I'm not in a band so I can't get the same locking in joy from a chugger that you get from connecting with another player. For me there are some lines that are just more fun or more 'right' than others because they chime with me or because they define the song in some way but I think mainly because they are the Goldilocks of busy enough but not overplaying. Obviously skill level is a factor so I'm not trying any Sheehan or Marcus Miller and I wonder whether it's skill or a weirdly protective attitude to Alphonso Johnson that make sme just not like Jaco (probably the former).

Christmas Wrapping was mentioned earlier and that's a great example of what I love because while it's not 'hard' it's busy and varied enough to keep it interesting and a real challege to get the main verse line really clean every time. I think the bass on Silk Sonic is masterful because it ticks all the boxes for me and again sits in the interesting but not hard camp. And that use of space - glorious. Rhythm Stick as recorded is about 4bpm too fast for me to get all the notes across all the strings cleanly in the verse line but it's such a good workout that I still love playing it and when it does flow perfectly on the odd occasion it's a lovely feeling. Psycho Killer or Roxanne or Sound and Vision are good examples of lines that are very simple but there's something about how they lock in that is just so satisfying. Same with lots of the Cake basslines which I've been having some fun with recently (I could sit on the verse riff of Sheep Go To Heaven for 10 mnutes straight and not get bored because it feels so good in a tactile way) .

Roly Wynne (RIP) is my all time favourite bassist and the 'classic' Ozric Tentacles lines are often a real challenge because they don't always sit right under my fingers but I can appreciate their brilliance all the same and enjoy trying to understand all the little variations, even though I don't know enough music theory to get half the weird modes they're using so some of the notes just seem 'wrong' to my brain even when they sound right to the ear. 

[Grooverjr]

7 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

 

By practicing harder stuff, I can play other  stuff more easily. 

 

This is true but sometimes just working on getting simpler stuff perfect makes me feel like the articulation has improved when I go back to something harder. May just be perception, of course....

[la bam]

what I am getting at is do those of you who like playing complex stuff, get joy 'whilst' youre playing it, or after when you've done it?

 

I can play most things competently well, but I'm always concentrating or listening when playing the more detailed stuff, rather than enjoying the moment, yet lovely grooves or simple rhythms when I fully lock in with drums bring a different type of joy, where I'm living in that moment. 

[Dad3353]

44 minutes ago, la bam said:

what I am getting at is do those of you who like playing complex stuff, get joy 'whilst' youre playing it, or after when you've done it?

 

I can play most things competently well, but I'm always concentrating or listening when playing the more detailed stuff, rather than enjoying the moment, yet lovely grooves or simple rhythms when I fully lock in with drums bring a different type of joy, where I'm living in that moment. 

 

To me, it's all one; simple, repetitive, complex, strenuous, whatever... I have to be 'in the zone', concentrated, relaxed, listening, all of the time. For drums, there's nothing more potentially boring as hearing someone learning and executing the 'rudiments', playing for hours at a time just the sticking of 'mama-papa' on the snare, to a metronome, then going over the variations of 'chabadoo' on the hit-hat, and lots more. It's the equivalent of playing scales and intervals, then chord tones chromatically up and down the neck of the bass and/or guitar. One has to be enjoying it, and concentrating on doing it right, for there to be any benefit, and life's too short to spend any of that not inconsiderable time and energy if it's just a chore, or to be done whilst watching a film. For my part, I can't really imagine being able to do any of it at all if I'm not consciously focusing on it. 
Disclaimer : I concentrate on doing the washing-up as best I can, or putting on my socks, too. I may be alone in this. 

[prowla]

If the line is too simple then I'm always looking to vary it a bit; I don't like being told that bass's job is to hold the root note.

If it's too complicated then I'll debate whether it's worth the effort learning someone else's lines verbatim.

The ones I find more intriguing are where there is randomness; in particular, Chris Squire and Paul McCartney seemed to be able to wander off at a tangent at times (then again, I'm not sure Macca would ever play precisely the same bass line anyway).

[OliverBlackman]

6 hours ago, la bam said:

what I am getting at is do those of you who like playing complex stuff, get joy 'whilst' youre playing it, or after when you've done it?

 

I can play most things competently well, but I'm always concentrating or listening when playing the more detailed stuff, rather than enjoying the moment, yet lovely grooves or simple rhythms when I fully lock in with drums bring a different type of joy, where I'm living in that moment. 

I’m assuming you’re talking about rehearsed lines rather than improv, in which case I had a feeling of relief if I’ve played it correctly or dread if it’s not going so well. If not going well and it’s the main groove (rather than a fill or unison line) I simplify it on the spot to fit in with what the rest of the band is playing. That can be just as gratifying as nailing it.

[tauzero]

11 hours ago, la bam said:

what I am getting at is do those of you who like playing complex stuff, get joy 'whilst' youre playing it, or after when you've done it?

 

I can play most things competently well, but I'm always concentrating or listening when playing the more detailed stuff, rather than enjoying the moment, yet lovely grooves or simple rhythms when I fully lock in with drums bring a different type of joy, where I'm living in that moment. 

 

While I'm playing it. On the simple ones I enjoy being in the groove, on the complex ones I enjoy the challenge - either from getting the preplanned line right or coming up with some interesting variations.