Minimum Watts required for small to medium pubs

[LuizFurness]

Hi everyone, apologies if this is a duplicated thread,

I'm looking to buy an amp for some Pub gigs, venue size will probably be small to medium without FOH support. So I'm unsure the minimum Watts required for a bass amp to consider (there are soooome many options), could anyone share any experience?

As a reference, the style is kind of pop music, R&B, funk for the cover band and Stereophonic tribute for the other one.

 

Cheers

 

Luiz

 

 

[Dood]

Hi Luiz! 

 

Well, there's so many variables involved from the size or amount of speakers you are using, the type of amplifier, even down to how 'honest' the manufacturer is with their ratings. I'd suggest, as a sort of 'capture all' that 300W RMS is a minimum with 500W RMS being a good place to head for. 

I also suggest that in most cases adding more speakers (e.g an extra matching cabinet) to be more effective than going from say, 500W to 600W output power.

 

My favourite set up for most gigs is a high quality 2x12 with a 500W RMS+ amplifier on top and this seems to be a good match for the bands I am currently playing with, as anything larger, I'd run my bass in to the PA as well. (Then there's the IEM discussion to be had.. lol)

[Dood]

If you're looking for some reference articles aimed at the beginner to intermediate player covering most bass related needs, here's a big pile I wrote for Bass Player Magazine: - https://www.guitarworld.com/author/dan-veall 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Watts don't matter. If they did one wouldn't be able to gig with an Ampeg B15N. It's the total package that counts. I know that trying before you buy isn't easy, but it's still the best way to find what works for you, well worth investing a day or two.

[chris_b]

I rarely get FOH. My minimum band rig is a 500 watt amp and 2 x 112 cabs.

 

It's loud enough to get a good clean sound in small or medium rooms (for larger rooms or louder bands I use a 700 watt amp) and light enough to carry without doing myself a mischief.

 

I use Aguilar amps and Barefaced cabs.

 

Keep an eye on the classifieds. There are some bargains around at the moment.

Edited December 10 by chris_b

[tauzero]

One decent 1x12 cab plus an amp putting out about 500W into it (or a combo equivalent) is what I use for similar gigs.

[Lozz196]

It’s a difficult one, for filling a pub sized venue without FOH I think the recommendations above, 500 watts into a 1x12 or 2x10 would be more than fine. I used to use a Markbass 500 watt (300 at 8ohms) watt 1x12 combo in an 8 piece band without FOH and although not gut-shuddering lows it was plenty, wasn’t pushing the amp at all.

 

And just recalled, a while back I used my Warwick Gnome iPRO (280 watts at 4ohms/200 at 8ohms) into some form of TC Electronic 1x12 cab. Admittedly we had FOH but I had to have my onstage volume to keep up with the drummer and again I wasn`t pushing the amp at all.

Edited December 10 by Lozz196

[Dan Dare]

50 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Watts don't matter. If they did one wouldn't be able to gig with an Ampeg B15N. It's the total package that counts. I know that trying before you buy isn't easy, but it's still the best way to find what works for you, well worth investing a day or two.

 

This. You wouldn't buy a car without driving it first.

 

As Bill says, watts are not a very meaningful way to rate amps and some manufacturers' claimed figures can be a little optimistic. If you're looking at the standard class D offerings from most companies, they all give (or are claimed to give) around 300w into 8 ohms and 500 into 4, because that's what the Hypex, IcePower and similar modules they all use put out. Many people gig quite happily with them, so they should all suit. Whether you like the sound they make will depend on your preference. The preamp designer will have made choices which affect that (Markbass tend to do old school very well, for example). 

 

Cabs are another story. Efficiency and quality affects how much they will deliver for a given input power. You really need to try a few things before deciding.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

44 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

 watts are not a very meaningful way to rate amps and some manufacturers' claimed figures can be a little optimistic.

Even when accurate they're not worth much. Is a 500 watt amp ten times louder than a 50 watt amp? Nope. It's twice as loud, assuming they have identical transfer function. That's a long leap as well. Ask anyone with a 50 watt valve amp. 😉

[Beedster]

59 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Even when accurate they're not worth much. Is a 500 watt amp ten times louder than a 50 watt amp? Nope. It's twice as loud, assuming they have identical transfer function. That's a long leap as well. Ask anyone with a 50 watt valve amp. 😉

 

This ^

 

I've gigged a B-15 because when pushed to the edge of it's limits it's got exactly the tone I'm looking for. I've gigged amps rated 10x higher (in watts) that sounded shit at the same apparent volume.

 

Irrespective of watts ratings, there are some units that are almost standards given how many gigging bassists use them, for example the Markbass 1x12/2x10 combos. Output of most can be improved through extension cabs, and they can be bought quite cheap and sold on for the same if they don't do the job to your liking. That's probably where I'd start my experimentation. 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

You can buy one of Tom Hamilton's B15s for a mere $6k. https://reverb.com/item/68553915-tom-hamilton-s-aerosmith-ampeg-vintage-b-15-flip-top-bass-combo-amp-low-serial-number-early-1960s-6

 

Maybe it's not the same amp, but we often shared a stage in the 60s where we'd use his B15 and my Bassman. His 30 watt B15 was louder than my 50 watt 2x12 Bassman.

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You can buy one of Tom Hamilton's B15s for a mere $6k. https://reverb.com/item/68553915-tom-hamilton-s-aerosmith-ampeg-vintage-b-15-flip-top-bass-combo-amp-low-serial-number-early-1960s-6

 

Maybe it's not the same amp, but we often shared a stage in the 60s where we'd use his B15 and my Bassman. His 30 watt B15 was louder than my 50 watt 2x12 Bassman.

 

There's no better evidence against the watts=volume argument than a B-15 👍

[Lozz196]

I’ve never been fortunate enough to play through a B15, fingers crossed one day I’ll get the opportunity.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

 

There's no better evidence against the watts=volume argument than a B-15 👍

Or a Vox AC-30. 😉

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Or a Vox AC-30. 😉

I was in the firing line of one Sunday evening, extraordinary volume 👍

[Downunderwonder]

Lots of people gig with a Trace Elf that only has 160w into a 8 ohm cab.

 

There's no a guarantee that a 500w amp will suffice but I would not want to be in the same pub if it was required.

 

One thing to keep in mind when scoping out gear is the volume knob position is a poor indicator for how much of the amp is being used. Many amps are at full noise by the 4th indent with most of the action occurring between 0 and 3.

[Chienmortbb]

9 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Watts don't matter. If they did one wouldn't be able to gig with an Ampeg B15N. It's the total package that counts. I know that trying before you buy isn't easy, but it's still the best way to find what works for you, well worth investing a day or two.

There are two types of watts and they certainly do matter. What is crucial is how efficiently you convert electrical watts to acoustic watts. I would agree that they are of limited value in evaluating how loud a system (amp plus cab) will sound. Add that to the way manufacturer's play fast and loose with the figures mean that published figures are close to worthless, unless you understand the published specs and how they try to fool us.

 

In the case of the OP he will do worse than listen to the advice of @Dood

[BassAdder60]

My advice if using mid priced gear is 

Bass Combo with 115 or 2x10 500w 

 

If head then 500w minimum with a 210 or 212 cab 

 

For high end cabs like LFSYS or Barefaced the cab could ve a 112 or 110 cab but depends on if a loud drummer 

 

My personal fav rig ( but heavy ) was an Ampeg SVT212AV cab and that with a good 500w head or 100w tube amp would do any pub gig going 

 

For your musical styles a clean sounding amp would be better such as Ashdown RM500 or RM800

 

An old second hand Ampeg PF800 would also work well or Ashdown ABM600 too 

 

All comes down to weight I guess and tone you want 

[LuizFurness]

Thanks all for all the good information you shared.

 

I will definitely have to spend sometime testing some amps in some shops but now a have a better understanding on what to look for.

 

To be honest I was very tempted to go for the ampeg micro-vr stack but it is 200w at 4ohm so maybe I will have to check and rethink my choice.

 

Anyway, thank you all again

 

Luiz

[Dood]

20 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Watts don't matter. If they did one wouldn't be able to gig with an Ampeg B15N. It's the total package that counts. I know that trying before you buy isn't easy, but it's still the best way to find what works for you, well worth investing a day or two.

 

Absolutely, I'd definitely suggest try-before-you-buy, though in the UK for example, its actually quite difficult to audition even just a few heads together up at a comparable volume in any shop. I agree with you that Watts is not a measure of SPL and I've said that many times, however, when we are limited to what "specifications" manufacturers give us, a rough ball-park figure is better than nothing at all. Or, to put it another way, using reasoning, a ≤ pub-band novice is more likely* to find something suitable if we start with "500W RMS and a 2x12" from nearly all of the current well known brands.  

[Dood]

 

 

Here's 320 of my gear review videos, there's a few amp and cabinet combinations in there to have a look at! I hope this helps! Save the playlist

[BassAdder60]

6 hours ago, LuizFurness said:

Thanks all for all the good information you shared.

 

I will definitely have to spend sometime testing some amps in some shops but now a have a better understanding on what to look for.

 

To be honest I was very tempted to go for the ampeg micro-vr stack but it is 200w at 4ohm so maybe I will have to check and rethink my choice.

 

Anyway, thank you all again

 

Luiz

The Ampeg micro stack is under powered for bands in the main 

I had the head and it wasn’t great 

 

The TE Elf is better and with a decent cab is gig worthy 

 

I would try a few and look in the for sale section on here 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

The Micro Stack had problems from day one mainly because it used a sealed cab. With one cab it got along OK, but with a second it couldn't handle the current demand when pushed hard, which with the low sensitivity of a sealed cab in the lows one pretty much had to do. Perhaps they've beefed it up since, but admitting they initially didn't get it right isn't typical corporate behavior.

[chris_b]

IMO the OP should be looking at something that can easily be upgraded. With a combo you have to replace the whole thing, so IMO the best option is a separate amp and cab. Then he can upgrade at will. 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Good advice, in part because combo cabs tend to be undersized for portability. Amps keep getting smaller and smaller as that aspect of what physics allows is ever changing. The physics of how speakers work is chiseled in stone. Hoffman's Iron Law is just as true today as it was in 1970.