Bass for thousands or bass for hundreds

[Stub Mandrel]

I gig because I want to not because I need to.

 

Gig funds don't cover transport, gear and rehearsal costs, but I want to gig with gear I enjoy using.

[Jackroadkill]

I gig with what I like to play.  I have pedals that cost me more than one of my favourite basses, for example, but that's just happenstance - I like the pedals and I like the basses.  None of my gear is top end, but it's workmanlike and reliable.  I like to tinker and upgrade bits and pieces here and there but I'm not precious about having the "best" gear, really.  My Jazz Bass is an early 1990's plywood Korean job with crap tuners, poverty-spec electrics and nasty ceramic pickups, but it plays well and sounds surprisingly good.  I have a Player P that I bought new a couple of years back, and that's probably my "highest" end bass.

[Geek99]

4 hours ago, Bass4real said:

Everything is crazy expensive in the U.S.

But There's a lot of really good basses being made for what some Bass players refer to as cheap pieces of s**t

.2 of my basses 

A  1996 PEAVEY FOUNDATION 5 is one monster BASS I paid $150.00 for it , of course it was used but in great condition.

My Brice FREAKOUT 5 str was 399.00 new

in 2018 .

It's one of the best basses I've ever had 

and I've had quite a few over the years.

I think it's not the BASS that makes a good player It's the player that makes a bass GOOD.

I have a boss me - 50B multi effect and a DARKGLASS B7k V2 analog Preamp , It's a badass I didn't use any bass effects until 2020 I started playing bass in 1976 .

Effects don't make me a better bass player 

But I can make the effect better., I mean sound better.

Anyway I agree with what you said 100%

 

I’ve been to music stores in the US and it is not crazy expensive compared to here. Your dollar price is what we pay in pounds and then some more, a dollar gets you 80% of a pound right now 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

I've got  Squier 40th Anniversary P and a Fender AVII 1960 P. The Fender cost five times as much, is "period correct" with all the details. Squoer made in China, Fender made in the USA.

 

As far as sound and feel are concerned each is as good as the other.

[Lozz196]

I have both Fender (Japan) and Squier Mustang basses. I`m fairly certain that with a fret-level on the Squiers that in a darkened room I`d be unlikely to be able to tell which was which. The Fenders are amazingly good, play so nice but I think with said fret-level and maybe a change of nut and electrics I may well make the Squiers my gigging instruments.

[edstraker123]

I spent a few hours noodling in a premium guitar shop on Saturday as it was really quiet and I could just pull things of the hangars and try them at will. The thing that struck me the most was what poor quality some of the new gear was - I was trying Fender's with bent pots grating on the pickguard, guitars with virtually unplayable actions and crackling pots  and generally the quality of the instrument in no way reflected the price. The dearest thing I played was a Maybach da vinci bass at £3300 - it looked nice - similar to an orchestral instrument and was custom shop - but the Vintage brand jazz I bought off ebay for £200 was actually set up better. I was expecting to be blown away by it  but that just didn't happen - I left empty handed and disappointed.

Maybe I'm just not a good enough player to realise the tonal nuances of the instruments , maybe we are just being ripped off or the premium we pay for big name brands is just a guarantee of gettting a reasonable resale price which certainly doesn't happen on the customs.

[rwillett]

29 minutes ago, edstraker123 said:

I spent a few hours noodling in a premium guitar shop on Saturday as it was really quiet and I could just pull things of the hangars and try them at will. The thing that struck me the most was what poor quality some of the new gear was - I was trying Fender's with bent pots grating on the pickguard, guitars with virtually unplayable actions and crackling pots  and generally the quality of the instrument in no way reflected the price. The dearest thing I played was a Maybach da vinci bass at £3300 - it looked nice - similar to an orchestral instrument and was custom shop - but the Vintage brand jazz I bought off ebay for £200 was actually set up better. I was expecting to be blown away by it  but that just didn't happen - I left empty handed and disappointed.

Maybe I'm just not a good enough player to realise the tonal nuances of the instruments , maybe we are just being ripped off or the premium we pay for big name brands is just a guarantee of gettting a reasonable resale price which certainly doesn't happen on the customs.

 

I have an 89 Made in Korea Squier Telecaster, yep I know it has the wrong number of strings, but I brought it as it was the best playing and best sounding six string in the shop to me. I suspect the 79 Les Paul that was in the shop might be a better guitar to a far better player than me (basically the world and his dog), but to me the Squier Telecaster is a great guitar, not a great Squier but a great guitar. I tried genuine Fender strats, the aformentioned Les Paul, and a couple of other ones and I kept coming back to this one. I walked in the shop with a £1K in my pocket and walked out with a nice guitar and most of it left

 

I now seek out the older Squiers and similar. My Jazz is a 97 MIJ bass, I occasionally borrow my daughters Vintage (brand not age) Les Paul she's learning to play on, I have a Hohner Strat copy that @Burns-bass sold me for £50 and its great for me. None are expensive guitars, I'd be sad to see them destroyed in a fire or lost, but if it was a choice between my guitars and most things, I wouldn't save the guitars.

 

However after saying all of that, I would like an old birth year Fender or Gibson. Heart over head

 

Rob

[edstraker123]

6 minutes ago, rwillett said:

I now seek out the older Squiers and similar

Similar experience - I'd bought at American professional strat for £1000+ at the time which I was really pleased with then a Squier came up locally on ebay for £40 - I bought it as an upgrade project but tonally it just sounded much better than the Fender as it was - cleaned up it was almost mint despite being quite an old one. I do love my Squiers.

[gjones]

On 15/12/2024 at 03:41, tauzero said:

 

I had about £3000 worth of gear on stage earlier for a £75 gig. The most expensive single item was the £1600 Sei Jazz BC Bike, and I wish I hadn't taken it because it's not a headless and there's buggerall room at that pub. I'm quite happy to use expensive gear if I'm enjoying it, with the minor proviso that I don't want it damaged or stolen.

 

I had a random guy (a bassist obviously) come up to me after I'd played a very badly paid gig and accuse me of taking a Pino Pallidino custom shop Precision to play in a shithole. 

 

He was quite upset.

 

I had to explain to him it was secondhand Squier, not a £3000 custom shop, that just so happened to be red.

[Woodinblack]

19 hours ago, Bass4real said:

Everything is crazy expensive in the U.S.

 

I think you will find, compared to most other places, especially here, everything is crazy cheap in the US!

 

17 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I gig because I want to not because I need to.

 

Gig funds don't cover transport, gear and rehearsal costs, but I want to gig with gear I enjoy using.

 

Spot on, same here, noone cares what I play apart from me - the new rickenbacker I took to the gig a few weeks back was the first time someone actually mentioned that they hadn't seen it before, and that was someone in the band.

So I take what I want. It is all insured, whether it costs £200 or £2000. Although I do tend to avoid taking the £2000 one to places where it might get knocked over. It might be insured but it is a one off!

[Count Bassy]

On 15/12/2024 at 13:58, meterman said:

Certainly not unusual for a drummer to have £5000 worth of gear onstage with him. But they could easily get away with a £500-all-in kit, and many do.

 I'd agree on the shells, but the difference between cheap symbols and slightly more expensive ones can be like chalk & cheese.

 

Not saying that the really top end cymbals should cost what they do. I suspect they're taking the piss a bit, or is it the normal diminishing returns thing.

 

EDIT: Having said that I have an (1890s) anglo concertina that would be considered top the range, or near. The sound, feel, action and response are tremendous, and I wouldn't sell it. One that cost half as much wouldn't be the same, but would (should) be a perfectly playable instrument.

 

Edited Monday at 15:40 by Count Bassy

[BigRedX]

There's nothing big or clever about having cheap gear, and equally there's nothing big or clever about having expensive gear either. Use what you can afford and/or need and just get on with the important job of playing the actual music.

 

I always put it into perspective by considering that when I was playing in a synth band in the 80s it would have been possible to buy a small mid-terrace house in need of modernisation for the same amount as we had spent on the musical equipment we took to gigs. In that respect taking £10k worth of instruments, effects and amplification on stage, when compared with property or even car prices these days, is peanuts.

[Acebassmusic]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

There's nothing big or clever about having cheap gear, and equally there's nothing big or clever about having expensive gear either. Use what you can afford and/or need and just get on with the important job of playing the actual music.

 

Tsk, tsk, tsk.......there you go again., using logic and common sense! The GAS Police will be round to make you see the errors of your ways 🤣 🤣

 

Totally agree with you on the "play what you want / need / afford / comfortable with". 👍

[meterman]

19 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

 I'd agree on the shells, but the difference between cheap symbols and slightly more expensive ones can be like chalk & cheese.

 

Not saying that the really top end cymbals should cost what they do. I suspect they're taking the piss a bit, or is it the normal diminishing returns thing.

 

 

Good question ^ 

 

Possibly the diminishing returns thing? With cymbals, the really cheap entry level ones will be made of simple pressed brass, and they'll sound like metal tea trays or something. No amount of amazing technique can hide that, they're always going to sound cheap and probably not last for too long.

 

Intermediate cymbals will usually be made from brass with some bronze in the mix, or even nickel or another material. They'll be pressed and hammered to some degree and sold as 'B8' or sometimes 'B12' cymbals, and the quality is a bit like Squiers or Harley Benton - you might get lucky and get a really good one that punches above it's weight and price tag but equally you might get something that sounds a bit clangy. Ok for teenagers while they're saving up for the good stuff but you never know, sometimes you might find an absolute gem of a cymbal in the intermediate range.

 

Top end cymbals (and some gongs and crotales and other orchestral stuff) will often be made from spun or cast bronze, and denoted as 'B20'. These can vary in sound enormously depending on the manufacturer but you'll probably not go far wrong with a top of the line Zildjian or Paiste or Bosphorus or similar. They're usually not cheap and some cymbals like the Italian made Spizzichino ones can easily command £2000 or £3000 each if they're hand hammered to a specific pitch. And players might wear cotton gloves just to handle them. In the used market, certain cymbals have 'one-off Wal prototype' status and people will search for years until one appears for sale somewhere, and then they'll pay whatever the asking price is because the chances of finding another one like it are pretty slim.
 

I own a mix of good intermediate and some relatively rare top end cymbals, some of which correspond to notes on the piano, so the choice of what to use depends on what kind of music I'm playing, or even the key of the song. As BigRedX says, use what's appropriate for your music because that's the most important thing. You don't have to use inexpensive or super expensive gear as some kind of badge of honour, and many drummers won't, because usually the rest of the band won't notice anyway so what's the point? Oh, and a bit of patina on vintage cymbals is acceptable, but relicing decent cymbals (some people actually do it) is generally not the done thing.
 

Okay, that's my cymbals Ted Talk for the day 😂 now I'm off to chop firewood. @Dad3353 could probably elucidate further on this, but basically, you usually get what you pay for with cymbals. 

 

[dclaassen]

I always find it fascinating to read these kind of discussions. I am an unabashed gear snob, always will be. Yes, there are inexpensive instruments that are well made, and can be made to be very giggable. Having said that, there are bunches of reasons why top-end instruments are worth the money. In some cases, it's the playability...the instrument can be a lot more responsive to small nuances in your technique. Other times, it's having a monster active system that lets you easily adapt to any and all situations. Fingerboards and fretwork are usually a lot better. I like ebony boards, so there is that. I'm not into looks especially but I guess that is the other factor. As far as using them, I'll play any of my basses down at the Dog and Duck..I just won't leave it unsupervised....:) 

[Burns-bass]

Just now, dclaassen said:

I always find it fascinating to read these kind of discussions. I am an unabashed gear snob, always will be. Yes, there are inexpensive instruments that are well made, and can be made to be very giggable. Having said that, there are bunches of reasons why top-end instruments are worth the money. In some cases, it's the playability...the instrument can be a lot more responsive to small nuances in your technique. Other times, it's having a monster active system that lets you easily adapt to any and all situations. Fingerboards and fretwork are usually a lot better. I like ebony boards, so there is that. I'm not into looks especially but I guess that is the other factor. As far as using them, I'll play any of my basses down at the Dog and Duck..I just won't leave it unsupervised....:) 

 

I think this expensive gear helps, but only up to a point.

 

I've been to several vintage guitar shops and heard people trying out expensive gear and they sound dreadful. Why? Becuase they're stupid (or deluded) enough to think that an expensive instrument will make them sound good. 

 

What it will do is help you to sound as good as you can (with your current technique) but an expensive bass won't make you a better player. 

 

Only practice and experience can do that. 

 

This is the same with any hobby or interest. I went to buy a new bike and my friend who works in the shop politely told me that no new bike would have as much of an impact as losing 2kg of weight and riding the bike I had every day. The point was made politely and it's 100% true. 

[Dad3353]

34 minutes ago, meterman said:

Good question ^ 

 

Possibly the diminishing returns thing? With cymbals, the really cheap entry level ones will be made of simple pressed brass, and they'll sound like metal tea trays or something. No amount of amazing technique can hide that, they're always going to sound cheap and probably not last for too long.

 

Intermediate cymbals will usually be made from brass with some bronze in the mix, or even nickel or another material. They'll be pressed and hammered to some degree and sold as 'B8' or sometimes 'B12' cymbals, and the quality is a bit like Squiers or Harley Benton - you might get lucky and get a really good one that punches above it's weight and price tag but equally you might get something that sounds a bit clangy. Ok for teenagers while they're saving up for the good stuff but you never know, sometimes you might find an absolute gem of a cymbal in the intermediate range.

 

Top end cymbals (and some gongs and crotales and other orchestral stuff) will often be made from spun or cast bronze, and denoted as 'B20'. These can vary in sound enormously depending on the manufacturer but you'll probably not go far wrong with a top of the line Zildjian or Paiste or Bosphorus or similar. They're usually not cheap and some cymbals like the Italian made Spizzichino ones can easily command £2000 or £3000 each if they're hand hammered to a specific pitch. And players might wear cotton gloves just to handle them. In the used market, certain cymbals have 'one-off Wal prototype' status and people will search for years until one appears for sale somewhere, and then they'll pay whatever the asking price is because the chances of finding another one like it are pretty slim.
 

I own a mix of good intermediate and some relatively rare top end cymbals, some of which correspond to notes on the piano, so the choice of what to use depends on what kind of music I'm playing, or even the key of the song. As BigRedX says, use what's appropriate for your music because that's the most important thing. You don't have to use inexpensive or super expensive gear as some kind of badge of honour, and many drummers won't, because usually the rest of the band won't notice anyway so what's the point? Oh, and a bit of patina on vintage cymbals is acceptable, but relicing decent cymbals (some people actually do it) is generally not the done thing.
 

Okay, that's my cymbals Ted Talk for the day 😂 now I'm off to chop firewood. @Dad3353 could probably elucidate further on this, but basically, you usually get what you pay for with cymbals. 

 

 

I'd echo all of the above; you get what you pay for, and your ears will tell you if it's what you want for your music. I'd add a couple of details, which concern the higher-priced cymbals, mostly, but is good for all, basically.
Most quality cymbals are cast, and then turned, on a lathe, which results in them having grooves in them, in similar fashion to vinyl records (remember them..?). This helps to explain why careful handling is key to having their original tone maintained throughout their life. Most folk take care handling vinyl, and wouldn't dream of leaving grubby fingerprints on the playing surface. Once degradation has started, no amount of cleaning will restore the music; the only real solution is to keep them as clean as possible for as long as possible. Thus it it with cymbals; one does not 'clean' them, one maintains their cleanliness. Getting them shiny with Brasso and the like may be good for the video shoot, but the sound they had in the studio is then ruined. My cymbals, for example, are kept in 'Cymbags', until they are on their perches; I remove the Cymbag when I play, and put it back immediately when finished. The metal is never touched by human hand, only the tip (olive...) of the drumsticks. I use nylon olives, which leave no marks on drum heads nor cymbals.
Another factor to be considered is strength. By their function, one is hitting the cymbals; they must be able to resist this. The more delicate the sound, the more delicate the cymbal, generally (and the more expensive..!). When playing in the UK, with light folk/pop groups, I had splendid Paiste 602 cymbals, which sound awesome (to me...). I moved to France, and toured in variety bands, playing larger venues, with no PA support (mid-seventies...). 'Variety' is what the name suggests : various styles from '30s dance music (musette...), '70s popular songs and some rock stuff. These latter did for my cymbals, as, although not being a particularly heavy hitter, they did not appreciate being played in that fashion. I replaced them, as and when they split, with Paiste 2002 versions, which don't have the same crystalline ring, but withstand rock rhythms much better. I now play with a mixture of Paiste and Sabian, but insist on using, in our micro-studio, my Paiste 602 Sound Edge hi-hat, as it's the most responsive to the way I play. I don't 'leather 'em', though.

Although I have bought cymbals second-hand, if the price is right and the condition is pristine, but I prefer to go through a rack of cymbals in a shop, using my sticks, and choose by ear, as there can be quite some difference in tone and response, even from the same model. Slightly academic these days, as I now play mostly e-drums, and can choose from a vast selection of top-end instruments without spending a fortune or deafening fellow musicians on stage. No, it's not the same as playing acoustic, but I get a repeatable great sound without having to worry about mis-handling them.
Disclaimer : I'm a drummer; I could go on and on for ages on the subject, so I'll stop now. Hope this helps. 

 

 

[rwillett]

I live and learn, thanks for this.

[Lozz196]

I now live in dread of our drummer finding out about these @Dad3353, it takes him about 3 days to set up/break down as it is...........

[Dad3353]

24 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

I now live in dread of our drummer finding out about these @Dad3353, it takes him about 3 days to set up/break down as it is...........

 

Now you know how you can help him, with the time you've saved with your own rapid set-up. 

[martthebass]

I don't generally judge on the basis of what gear people are playing, but I guess like most of us I do like to see what guys are using in a band setting.  I don't own high end stuff, my compact collection of 5 basses runs from second hand £400 (Metro Express Sadowsky) to about £3.8K (Status CW - 1st gen). In the main I think I'd be lying if I said I couldn't tell the difference between £400 and c. £4K from a feel and playability point of view.  From a sound and utility viewpoint though it's far more subjective and less cut and dried.  For gigs I use a second hand Sterling shortscale Ray and a Sandberg Lionel, the latter was 3 times the cost of the former but I suspect most punters wouldn't spot that and certainly wouldn't hear the difference. But, the Sandberg is nicer to play and easier to bond with, so to me it's worth the difference and while not cheap (mid range?) I don't feel too uptight playing it in some of the more shonky venues.

[Woodinblack]

43 minutes ago, martthebass said:

I don't own high end stuff, my compact collection of 5 basses runs from second hand £400 (Metro Express Sadowsky) to about £3.8K (Status CW - 1st gen)

 

Oh if only the rest of us had to slum it with such low end equipment

 

[martthebass]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Oh if only the rest of us had to slum it with such low end equipment

 

It’s either that or give it to the taxman 😂😂😂

[Bass4real]

7 hours ago, BigRedX said:

There's nothing big or clever about having cheap gear, and equally there's nothing big or clever about having expensive gear either. Use what you can afford and/or need and just get on with the important job of playing the actual music.

 

I always put it into perspective by considering that when I was playing in a synth band in the 80s it would have been possible to buy a small mid-terrace house in need of modernisation for the same amount as we had spent on the musical equipment we took to gigs. In that respect taking £10k worth of instruments, effects and amplification on stage, when compared with property or even car prices these days, is peanuts.

My post is NOT  my attempt to show Bass players on BASSCHAT how " clever " I think I am , BUT I am pretty big (tall) 188cm  in the UK  - In the U.S. that is 6'2  😁

  I agree with your reply 100% 

It's been my personal experience , not just my opinion, I have owned both expensive and basses costing under 400.00 dollars 

at the same time , more times than not I

was choosing a bass I paid a few hundred dollars for , I'm talking no matter playing a show , in the studio , or whatever.

My expensive " great " Bass guitars, were not getting played as much. 

  Personal Experience vs. opinions 

My post is intended for the kinda BASS player that's just been playing for a short time. 

Certainly , not to prove or show my whatever.

 

Thankyou for your reply 

I appreciate your feedback 

C C

 

 

 

 

 

[TheLowDown]

 

2 hours ago, Bass4real said:

I am pretty big (tall) 188cm  in the UK  - In the U.S. that is 6'2

It's in the UK too. I still think in feet and inches (and stones and lbs for weight), and I don't know anyone else that doesn't.