Frontmen - who’d have em?

[Mickeyboro]

After three years (and much bitching by me on this board), we showed our singer/harmonica player the door in September. He lasted three years before we found him insufferable - like Bryan Ferry, he thought he was the band, and eventually the worms turned.

 

His replacement lasted four gigs before venting his spleen on WhatsApp and walking. His long list of perceived faults made it clear why he’s not been in a band for years. Decent singer though.
 

I was away for the second and third gigs he did, which were apparently marred by him fiddling with the PA between every number. Fortunately on Saturday he had to sing sitting down (bad back) and it was my PA, so we did okay. Well, I thought we did!

 

My question is - how do you attract a frontman who doesn’t want to change things? They will have their own style and ideas, sure, but I don’t want to bin three years’ work to conform with their wishes. Nor do I want to make another bad choice which could potentially sink us. 
 

We are a blues band, but not a straight-down-the-line one that plays 24 songs the same way every night.

 

Thanks for your input as ever, BC.🙏

Edited Friday at 16:51 by Mickeyboro

[Beedster]

Play with mates and only mates 👍

[Lozz196]

Make it clear at any auditions that what is heard is what is going to be played and that if that’s not suitable for them then thanks for their time but no thanks. Sometimes the direct approach might seem to take longer to find someone but it’s usually quicker than having 2 or 3 unsuitable people in post trying to make changes and getting on everyone’s nerves.

[Norris]

Try singing yourselves = no frontman issues + more money each

[Mickeyboro]

20 minutes ago, Norris said:

Try singing yourselves = no frontman issues + more money each

Hence a separate post about singing lessons!👍 

Edited Friday at 19:30 by Mickeyboro

[Beedster]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

Play with mates and only mates 👍

 

I'll expand....

 

I've played in a lot of bands, some I auditioned for (both pro and am), some I was invited into, some I forced my way into (long story), and some have simply emerged from conversations with friends. By far the best have been the latter, and specifically the guys I'm playing with at present, who are 1) a guy I've known for 15 years as a friend but who seemed musically well above me (multi-instrumentalist/multi-genre), 2) a close friend with whom I've gigged a few times but with whom I've drunk beer and talked band ideas more times than I can remember, and 3) a good friend of his who is (was) a casual acquaintance of mine. It's a project I'll expand on here as it develops, but the main thing is that the core sentiment of the band is goodwill, there's not been one argument despite the fact that at least two of us are very good at arguing, everyone turns up at rehearsal having learned their parts, no-one is trying to take the lead, there's an implicit group decision making that is quite unusual in bands in my experience. But most of all, we enjoy playing the set and that means that at rehearsals, while we may arrive with the weight of a day's work/kids/families on our shoulders, 30-minutes in we're in the groove and I think it's fair to say we all leave feeling a whole lot better than we arrived.  

 

And I am by far the least talented member of the band!

 

I've only ever been in one other band like it, and that band was the same, a group of friends. They are without doubt the two best bands I've had the pleasure of belonging to. Friendship is I think a major player in bands

 

I'll update on this band's gigs etc in another thread as things develop 👍 

[Happy Jack]

The OP specifies a Frontman and that's where the rot sets in.

 

A singing guitarist or bassist or even (God help us) drummer can express their creativity through their instrument.

 

A dedicated vocalist frontman HAS to think of himself as the epicentre of the band just in order to function effectively. 

 

Nobody wants a shy, retiring, ego-free frontman.

[gjones]

Successful bands are never democracies. If a charismatic and talented singer/front person is good at what they do, then the band revolves around them. All the successful bands I've ever been in have revolved around the singer/frontperson. Play what they want you to play and things will go smoothly, think you or any other band member has a say in the set and suddenly you no longer have a singer/front person. 

 

 

[Count Bassy]

2 minutes ago, gjones said:

Successful bands are never democracies. If a charismatic and talented singer/front person is good at what they do, then the band revolves around them. All the successful bands I've ever been in have revolved around the singer/frontperson. Play what they want you to play and things will go smoothly, think you or any other band member has a say in the set and suddenly you no longer have a singer/front person. 

 

 

Been there and done that with a singing drummer. As soon as other members (all three of us) started suggesting songs he threw his toys out of the pram and walked. Yet another band that went nowhere.

[TheRev]

36 minutes ago, gjones said:

If a charismatic and talented singer/front person is good at what they do, then the band revolves around them. All the successful bands I've ever been in have revolved around the singer/frontperson. 

 

 

We've got one of those - the band would be much worse off without his ability to engage the audience. He's also totally ego - free and values the input of everyone in the band.

 

Some of our guitarists have been tw@ts mind, but the current one is a good'un.

Edited Friday at 22:53 by TheRev

[NHM]

Our amazing front woman left early autumn. The set was built around her (think Beth Hart). We were lucky to recruit a fantastic new singer almost immediately, but she is very different even for songs within the same genre. It is interesting seeing other band members adapt (or not) to find material to best suit her voice.

[EJWW]

11 hours ago, gjones said:

Successful bands are never democracies. If a charismatic and talented singer/front person is good at what they do, then the band revolves around them.

Spot on.

 

I've quit my most recent band after 3 years because of this reason. Really talented bunch of people, loved the music, saw various members come and go. But when the singer announced she was off that was it for me. 

Without a capable front person the band will struggle to connect with the audience no matter how great the music. 

[Beedster]

11 hours ago, gjones said:

Successful bands are never democracies.

 

That doesn't mean that they are autocracies though?

 

But either way, if democracy means a process by which a group of people accept that a smaller/sub-group will take responsibility for decision making, then many successful bands are democracies. The problem with some/many other bands is that that one or more members have usurped power. I'm happy to be in the former, I've usually walked quite quickly in the latter. Having said that, I was at fault for this with one of my longer running bands years back in which I thought I was getting my own way because my judgement was valid, in hindsight the others simply weren't prepared to argue with me, they preferred to get on and play the music. We made some great music and we're all still good friends, but I would do things differently now for sure. 

[SimonK]

I feel like I've played with my fair share of difficult non-compromisers - mainly singers and guitarists. The way I look at it is that I'd rather be playing than not playing, and so even (often!) when we are not doing things the way I would want to I try to put on what I imagine is (as I've never actually been there!) a professional/session type attitude and just do what I'm told as effectively and accurately as I can. I'm also careful what I say afterwards when packing down and loading - twice I've been in bands that have lost members following an argument in the car park!

[Cliff Edge]

19 hours ago, Mickeyboro said:

Hence a separate post about singing lessons!👍 

 Singing lessons? For a blues band?             Interesting. 

[Happy Jack]

28 minutes ago, Cliff Edge said:

 Singing lessons? For a blues band?             Interesting. 

 

I'd pay serious money to be able to deliver a song like this ...

 

 

[Skybone]

Good bands need good singers, unfortunately, most good singers come with excess baggage that doesn't always make them good team players.

 

As much as the singers think that the band revolves around them (much like their ego's), they also have to work as part of the team.

[chris_b]

I don't care how big the ego.

 

I'll deal with anything that comes along, as long as their ability and talent balances the scales.

[itu]

Use two frontwo/men, and they keep the competing, or quarreling.

[tauzero]

18 hours ago, gjones said:

Successful bands are never democracies. If a charismatic and talented singer/front person is good at what they do, then the band revolves around them. All the successful bands I've ever been in have revolved around the singer/frontperson. Play what they want you to play and things will go smoothly, think you or any other band member has a say in the set and suddenly you no longer have a singer/front person. 

 

That's as bad a generalisation as never joining a band with a couple in it. I was in a successful democratic band with Mrs Zero a while ago, exploding both of those myths simultaneously.

[Stub Mandrel]

Been lucky with the most recent band. Struggled a bit, found someone who turned out to be unable to sing songs they couldn't 'endorse' e.g. Hey Joe. Plus their guitar that wasn't going to feature (two already) started to creep in.

 

Fortunately circumstances made the break easier. Desperate for a new singer I tried facebook without much luck.

 

Out of the blue a guy who sang with my brother in the 1980s got in touch... one of the best local singers looking to get back into gigging (he's also in a FNM tribute who do about 3 gigs a year). I'd thought about asking but assumed he couldn't do it.

 

All working out really well, all of us positive and pulling weight and having a great deal of fun. Main reason is this is the band where we play the songs we want to. Fingers crossed it keeps going.

[odysseus]

29 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

That's as bad a generalisation as never joining a band with a couple in it. I was in a successful democratic band with Mrs Zero a while ago, exploding both of those myths simultaneously.

 

The thing about generalisations is that they apply quite a lot - they don't necessarily apply in absolutely every situation.  

[stewblack]

It's tough. We are, as performers, necessarily fragile, ego driven and opinionated. 

The singer needs even more ego than anyone else because of the vulnerability of their role in the band.

I thought I'd cracked it. I found a singer I loved as a human being, who was if anything lacking in self confidence and ego, and has the greatest singing voice I've ever heard. 

I did everything in my power to help her realise how good she is and knew I would stick to her like a limpet. Success is guaranteed to every band she sings in. 

So what happened? She f¢ked off and joined another band.

Now I'm sitting at home with my thumb up my a$$ while she's out gigging with her new best friends.

Moral of the story? Other people are entirely unreliable, unpredictable, and will do their own thing regardless of your wishes. Singers doubly so.

[Jackroadkill]

3 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

 

I'd pay serious money to be able to deliver a song like this ...

 

 

 

I've been listening to "Christmas Card From A Hooker In Minneapolis" a lot this week.

[TimR]

I think there's always an issue once a singer gets their foot in the door and (like a lot of relationships) appears to initially like everything you do, only to find a year or so down the line, their tastes are vastly different and they start changing the set list completely. 

 

If your band has a style, you need to make sure the front person (amd everyone else?) is on board 100% with that kind of music.

 

Personally I'll play anything within reason and happy to learn an entire new set list in a few weeks for the right band/singer. 

 

 

Edited 15 hours ago by TimR