Are my band expectations simply too high?

[NancyJohnson]

I've been playing for close to 40 years; intense periods of where I can't get enough travel alongside periods where I've kind of stepped back a bit and not done much.  Ebbs and flows.  Currently, in a quiet period.

 

Decided a few days back that I'd like to get back to band stuff, aside from some remote recording stuff (during my recent recouperation) not done anything serious in a year, but to be honest for a few months of the last twelve I was simply incapable of doing anything, so I advertised on JMB.  I had a couple of hits fairly quickly, a band about ten miles from me looking for a bass player.  The private message was fairly confident, an element of bigging-up, links to audio.  Had a listen and well, oh dear.

 

I'm a solid enough player (some of you will have seen me live, I suspect), I'm not John Myung or Geddy Lee by any stretch, but I'm confident in what I do.  All I want is a band that plays original material and something with a bit of speed, creativity and passion, in a punky/alternative vein such as (notable mentions) 3 Colours Red, Alkaline Trio, Sugar, Baby Chaos, Summercamp.  Not much to ask is it?  The message I got made out the band were something of greatness.  I listened - and sometimes I think I should have been working in A&R - it was woeful, formulaic, rubbish.  First track I gave a listen right through, nothing special.  The second I just listened to the first 10-15 seconds (awful) and then jumped through it a few times.  Terrible.  Then track three was more of the same and I stopped listening.  Woeful.

 

Begs the question, are my expectations too high?

 

 

[12stringbassist]

You know what you would like to do.
Hold out for that. It is there.
Advertise for like-minded people. Don't wait for them to advertise.

[Doctor J]

Unless you think you have the ideas and the drive to make a silk purse out of it, walk away. Never compromise on the standard of music, you'll just be unhappy and leave, sooner or later. 

[chris_b]

Unless you're Bob Dylan, playing in a band, to audiences, is always a compromise. Sometimes it's a 50% fit sometimes 90%.

 

Do you want to play or sit around for the next 10 years waiting for perfection to drop in your lap (unlikely) or get out there and make a 50% band a 90% band.

[Bluewine]

 

 

 

"I'm a solid enough player (some of you will have seen me live, I suspect), I'm not John Myung or Geddy Lee by any stretch, but I'm confident in what I do.  All I want is a band that plays original material and something with a bit of speed, creativity and passion, in a punky/alternative vein such as (notable mentions) 3 Colours Red, Alkaline Trio, Sugar, Baby Chaos, Summercamp.  Not much to ask is it? "

 

I don't think you're asking for enough.  What about compatibility with the guys you'd be playing with. Are you looking for a band that gigs a lot or only a few times a year? Location, I'm assuming you want a band to be local to your area?

 

Good luck, let us know if you find the right band for you.

 

Daryl

Edited yesterday at 15:42 by Bluewine

[fretmeister]

To quote Zakk Wylde:

 

"If someone tells you to play something you don't believe in. Tell them to go f*cking die"

 

Bit harsh to be fair, and ignores the concept of being paid enough, but not necessarily the wrong mindset either!  

[Lozz196]

I don’t think it’s high expectations, it’s just knowing both what you want and what you don’t want. 

[neepheid]

You either like the material or you don't.  I've quit bands because the new stuff the band leader was coming up with was not to my tastes.

[MichaelDean]

I've been in bands that I didn't believe in. Lack of experience/personal belief kept me in them and it was a waste of time for me. 

 

Hold out for the right thing and try Gumtree, local Facebook groups etc. I've personally never found anything worth it on JMB...

[NancyJohnson]

I used to write an awful lot - material musically similar to the above bands I've mentioned - despite the genre I prided myself on keeping things short, the no repeat guarantee of verses/choruses unnecessarily (and so forth), part of the joy for me was writing, then going through this delicious stage of rearranging everything in a full band context, cutting stuff.

 

The stuff I listened to yesterday was so f*cking dull.  While the production was OK, The singer was just terrible, the whole band was so lackluster.  There just wasn't any life or go in proceedings.  Makes me laugh when guys are going, 'We want to take this as far as we can.'. Oh, stop.  I'm certain that I could take those tunes and improve them significantly just by cutting them up and pasting the sections back together.

[Bilbo]

I think it is one of the greatest frustrations in music making - finding people who are interested in playing the music you want to play and who are good enough to play it. The 'better' you are (subjective, I know), the harder it becomes. Even if I could out Jaco Jaco, where is my Zawinul, my Shorter, my Erskine etc? I guess they find you if you are good enough.

[Skybone]

Unfortunately, I know exactly what you're saying. I quit my last band earlier in the year for a number of different reasons, most of them stemming from the singist. 

 

I put a few ad's out there, saying what I was after (original material, etc.), but was still approached by covers only bands. Also approached by a couple of people wanting to do originals who sent links to their material, but when I listened to it, calling it "woeful, formulaic rubbish" would be generous.

 

Anyway, @NancyJohnson, I don't think it's too much to ask.

 

You can only polish a 💩 so much, until you realise it's still a 💩.

[Burns-bass]

I don’t want to be too critical, but unless you join an established band you’ll need to put in a lot of work. The best bands are a cohesive unit. It takes time, investment and a lot of frustration.

 

To provide some context, this year I’ve done 30 gigs with one band and only now are we starting to sound really good.

 

The bands in your list will have spent 30 odd years playing the same songs. No wonder they sound amazing.

[neepheid]

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

I don’t want to be too critical, but unless you join an established band you’ll need to put in a lot of work. The best bands are a cohesive unit. It takes time, investment and a lot of frustration.

 

To provide some context, this year I’ve done 30 gigs with one band and only now are we starting to sound really good.

 

The bands in your list will have spent 30 odd years playing the same songs. No wonder they sound amazing.

 

Respectfully, I disagree.  You can't deal in absolutes when it comes to people.

 

If the material doesn't immediately speak to me in some way, or show some degree of promise or potential, then I'd rather not waste my time with it.

 

My current originals band (The Inevitable Teaspoons) formed out of the ashes of another one semi-imploding (which finally died this year).  We started afresh with a clean slate and without the main songwriter.  I'm terrible at tooting my own horn, but I think we sound quite good.

[Burns-bass]

39 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Respectfully, I disagree.  You can't deal in absolutes when it comes to people.

 

If the material doesn't immediately speak to me in some way, or show some degree of promise or potential, then I'd rather not waste my time with it.

 

My current originals band (The Inevitable Teaspoons) formed out of the ashes of another one semi-imploding (which finally died this year).  We started afresh with a clean slate and without the main songwriter.  I'm terrible at tooting my own horn, but I think we sound quite good.

Of course if the people you meet can’t play or they don’t like similar music then that’s different. 
 

Why would you waste time then? 
 

But no collection of musicians who’ve just met is going to sound like a pro band without a lot of time and commitment.

Plus, you need to build trust in each other then you can shape the songs more and more.

 

[fretmeister]

43 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Respectfully, I disagree.  You can't deal in absolutes when it comes to people.

 

If the pay packet doesn't immediately speak to me in some way, or show some degree of promise or potential, then I'd rather not waste my time with it.

 

 

 

Fixed it!

 

 

[petebassist]

17 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

I used to write an awful lot - material musically similar to the above bands I've mentioned - despite the genre I prided myself on keeping things short, the no repeat guarantee of verses/choruses unnecessarily (and so forth), part of the joy for me was writing, then going through this delicious stage of rearranging everything in a full band context, cutting stuff.

 

The stuff I listened to yesterday was so f*cking dull.  While the production was OK, The singer was just terrible, the whole band was so lackluster.  There just wasn't any life or go in proceedings.  Makes me laugh when guys are going, 'We want to take this as far as we can.'. Oh, stop.  I'm certain that I could take those tunes and improve them significantly just by cutting them up and pasting the sections back together.

Have you not considered dusting off your old songs and forming your own band? At least you'd be guaranteed to like the music, you'd just need to find some like minded musicians. 

[neepheid]

15 hours ago, fretmeister said:

 

 

Fixed it!

 

 

 

We're talking original music - what effin' pay packet?

 

[Skybone]

15 hours ago, neepheid said:

If the material doesn't immediately speak to me in some way, or show some degree of promise or potential, then I'd rather not waste my time with it.

 

Totally agree with this, you can polish a 💩 only so much until you realise it's still a 💩.

[neepheid]

15 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Of course if the people you meet can’t play or they don’t like similar music then that’s different. 
 

Why would you waste time then? 
 

But no collection of musicians who’ve just met is going to sound like a pro band without a lot of time and commitment.

Plus, you need to build trust in each other then you can shape the songs more and more.

 

 

Well, isn't that exactly what the OP was getting at?  The pining for old times notwithstanding, he didn't like the songs provided to him, he didn't seem to care for what he seemed to consider delusions of grandeur on the part of the band RE: their quality, so no, I don't think his expectations are too high - it's just not the right opportunity for him.  No initial spark, no play.  Of course things take time to improve, but without that initial feeling that it could go somewhere, what's the point?

[neepheid]

Shaggy dog story/sidebar related to having standards - I once declined to join a band because I had expectations of basic professionalism which I think were (and are) completely reasonable.  I played a couple of gigs with them as a dep and at one of them, the singer and the guitarist had a pretty heated argument on stage during the set about eff knows what.  Singer asked me to join a few weeks later and I politely declined, and told him why.

 

[russ.c]

Finding a band = dating. Being in a band = relationship. Leaving a band = divorce.

 

It's always a case of expectations, then working with what you've got. Nothing will ever be 100% fit.

 

I wish you the best of luck finding your new band.

Edited 11 hours ago by russ.c

[Leonard Smalls]

2 hours ago, neepheid said:

We're talking original music - what effin' pay packet?

Aye... It's rare we get absolutely nowt, but what we do get tends to be at the lower end of 2/10 of nowt!

I remember being second top bill at a venue in Birmingham for a 9 band all-dayer... We'd gone in 3 cars due to all coming from who-knows where, parking had cost us £20 each, plus the fuel and the 2+ hours drive each way.

At the end of the gig, there was maybe 75 people there, the promoter came up to me and said "I've got your money, it's £19" which he handed to me. And I said "each?" and he said "no, that's it!". 

We once got £13 in the Welsh Valleys, and more than once we've come away with nothing at all!

[borntohang]

Douglas Adams had a routine about how there are infinite planets but we know that not all of them are occupied, so there must be a finite number of inhabited planets. Any finite number divided by infinity is as close to zero as makes no difference, so the average population of the universe is 0. Similarly, having worked in a venue for five years and toured for another fifteen or so, my working theory is that there are an infinite number of shit bands and consequently zero good bands - any bands you might think are good are a statistical outlier and should be excluded from the study.

 

Jokes aside I don't think you should be forced to lower your expectations, but it's worth acknowledging that by their late twenties most genuinely ground-breaking stellar musicians have either given up in favour of the the day job or are already in a full-time successful band (or more likely six bands). The ones looking for a new project are likely to form it with old bandmates or friends with good reputations instead of taking a risk on JMB strangers.

 

You don't have to give up, just be aware of the playing field and that it might take a while to find a group that really fits. Much like online dating, you're probably going to have to kiss some frogs in the hope they might eventually be transformed into something vaguely resembling a deposed royal.

[BigRedX]

Addressing the OP, it depends on how much effort you want to put into a band on top of playing the bass guitar. If that's all you want to do, then it might be some time before you find a band that you think is suitable for you. However if you want to be a bit more proactive then it should be a lot easier to find a band that isn't quite right but has the potential to be so after you have had some input.

 

After The Terrortones stopped gigging it was over 12 months before I found another suitable musical venture. I put a very specific ad on JMB and was prepared to wait for the "right" band. They weren't 100% perfect when I joined, but over the next few years I subtly exerted my influence on the way the band developed and now we are pretty much exactly the kind of band I want to be in.

 

Sometimes band are the way that they are, not because they are terrible, but because the existing members simply don't know any better, and all it might take is a push in the right direction to make them much, much better.

 

And regarding getting paid, there is absolutely no reason for an originals band to lose money playing gigs unless they are deliberately playing for free or they are just badly organised. I think the last time any originals band I've been in played for less than £50 (unless we had chosen to play for free) was some time in the 80s. Even if the gig payment itself doesn't cover our expenses I would expect to make up the deficit (and more) from PROFIT on merch sales.