Are my band expectations simply too high?

[Lozz196]

Agree, originals bands shouldn`t accept playing for nothing unless it`s a gift to a mate or a charity one of them supports (and the other band members agree to it). In my current originals band we do pretty good with fees, but not too well with merch (mainly cos we hardly ever bring it along, aarrrggh). In my last band we did really well on merch and ok on fees (I always thought we undersold ourselves to be honest). 

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

And regarding getting paid, there is absolutely no reason for an originals band to lose money playing gigs unless they are deliberately playing for free or they are just badly organised. I think the last time any originals band I've been in played for less than £50 (unless we had chosen to play for free) was some time in the 80s. Even if the gig payment itself doesn't cover our expenses I would expect to make up the deficit (and more) from PROFIT on merch sales.

 

If only!

When you're low down the bill you'll often get very little indeed, at least at the sort of punky do's we seem to play! If there's 8 bands on and they're charging "donations" at the door many won't pay owt, and the soundman always gets paid... Then the promoter takes a chunk of what's left, so there's not much to split! The bar always makes money though, but we never see any of that either. It often used to be that if you weren't willing to accept that you wouldn't be playing!

But we seem to get about £50 (sometimes more!) nowadays, but I never know how much we're getting paid until afterwards as I tend not to organise gigs; perhaps I should ask before agreeing to do it, though everyone else seems happy to get nowt. As it is we tend to stick it in the band kitty for our upcoming recording. 

As for merch, we'll have done well if we sell 2 cds and a tshirt...

Though I do know that we're actually getting more reasonable money for our next gig, assuming some tickets get sold in advance and the venue doesn't pull it!

 

[Dan Dare]

23 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

are my expectations too high?

 

No, but they may well mean you will find many bands a disappointment. If you've been playing for several decades and know what you're doing, that puts you ahead of the majority of non-pro bands out there.

 

That isn't meant to sound arrogant, but when I moved out of London a couple of years back, I looked for bands to join and realised how much I had taken for granted in the bands I had played in for 40 plus years in the Smoke. Over 40 years of playing, you will have learned a lot and it can be a shock to learn how little the people who don't have your experience know.

 

In my case, I had to decide whether I was prepared to set my expectations aside initially, start small and put some time/effort into knocking any band that asked me to join into shape. Whether that's possible will depend on the potential of the band members to improve/up their game and, crucially, whether their egos will allow them to be guided (obviously, you need to approach this with tact and diplomacy).

 

So far, it's worked with one band I joined and failed with the other, because the drummist wouldn't accept things I suggested.

 

 

[Dan Dare]

duplicate post

 

Edited 13 hours ago by Dan Dare

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

In my last band we did really well

You were getting some great gigs - the boys still are!

I think our problem is that perhaps we're not straight-ahead punk enough for punk gigs, not metal enough for metal venues and too punky for rock.

Not only that, but anywhere with a scene we might fit into is at least 2 hours drive away, and as they haven't heard of us we don't get the gig unless we play for virtually nowt apart from for good old exposures...

[russ.c]

As a dear friend used to put it, "exposure doesn't put petrol in the tank". Those gigs were always refused and the promoter given an earful.

[NancyJohnson]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Addressing the OP, it depends on how much effort you want to put into a band on top of playing the bass guitar. If that's all you want to do, then it might be some time before you find a band that you think is suitable for you. However if you want to be a bit more proactive then it should be a lot easier to find a band that isn't quite right but has the potential to be so after you have had some input.

 

After The Terrortones stopped gigging it was over 12 months before I found another suitable musical venture. I put a very specific ad on JMB and was prepared to wait for the "right" band. They weren't 100% perfect when I joined, but over the next few years I subtly exerted my influence on the way the band developed and now we are pretty much exactly the kind of band I want to be in.

 

Sometimes band are the way that they are, not because they are terrible, but because the existing members simply don't know any better, and all it might take is a push in the right direction to make them much, much better.

 

And regarding getting paid, there is absolutely no reason for an originals band to lose money playing gigs unless they are deliberately playing for free or they are just badly organised. I think the last time any originals band I've been in played for less than £50 (unless we had chosen to play for free) was some time in the 80s. Even if the gig payment itself doesn't cover our expenses I would expect to make up the deficit (and more) from PROFIT on merch sales.

 

I have no qualms about joining an existing band (although this was my last gig and I never felt there was any exceeding of expectation thing going on), no issues with starting something new with like-minded players and to address other points raised elsewhere it's certainly not about any monetary payoff.  It's just about having a degree of fun, being energised by the creative process and playing music that I wouldn't be embarrassed by.

 

 

 

[bassbiscuits]

Don’t lower your own standards to fit in with someone else’s. 

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Leonard Smalls said:

You were getting some great gigs - the boys still are!

I think our problem is that perhaps we're not straight-ahead punk enough for punk gigs, not metal enough for metal venues and too punky for rock.

Not only that, but anywhere with a scene we might fit into is at least 2 hours drive away, and as they haven't heard of us we don't get the gig unless we play for virtually nowt apart from for good old exposures...

 

As much as every band wants to be unique and original, genres definitely help you to find your audience. So if you're a bit punk/metal/rock put yourself in all three and just go with it. After all if you found enough musicians who were happy to cross genres to make your music there will be even more audience members who like the combination.

 

Also don't worry about not headlining, but at the same time don't get bogged down in gigs with lots of disparate bands. Go with your genres and stick to gigs with 4 bands or less, if necessary, starting at the bottom and working your way up the bill as you get better known. IME playing just before the headliner is almost always the best spot. If they really are popular enough to be a proper headliner then most of the people who are coming to see them will be there when you go on, and if they are just "playing last" the band immediately before normally get the biggest crowd of the night. Then put on a show and have someone ready at the merch table to sell your CDs and T-shirts to the audience to moment you finish playing. 

 

IMO no band is worthy of a proper headline slot unless they have an album out and re selling significant numbers of physical product - CDs/records/cassettes.

[Bluewine]

6 hours ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

I have no qualms about joining an existing band (although this was my last gig and I never felt there was any exceeding of expectation thing going on), no issues with starting something new with like-minded players and to address other points raised elsewhere it's certainly not about any monetary payoff.  It's just about having a degree of fun, being energised by the creative process and playing music that I wouldn't be embarrassed by.

 

 

 

Does that mean you'd stay away from established bands with a heavy gigging schedule where monetary payoff is a big part of their business model ?

 

Daryl

[Doctor J]

Heavy gigging bands getting paid for playing original music are not exactly plentiful.

[NancyJohnson]

27 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Does that mean you'd stay away from established bands with a heavy gigging schedule where monetary payoff is a big part of their business model ?

 

Daryl

 

It's never been about recouping costs for me and to be honest I doubt I could handle touring/lots of gigs...suppose I'm just at the point in my life where I enjoy my homelife more than playing a circuit of shitholes here in 'blighty or having a schedule that unduly affects family life/schedule outside of band.

 

In the (somewhat) unlikely event that Pearl Jam came knocking, then obviously that might change my mind.  😏