Are my band expectations simply too high?

[NancyJohnson]

6 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

As someone who has seen @NancyJohnson play, I can say that he's being modest about his ability on bass. Or as a songwriter for that matter.

 

You're very kind!

[Bluewine]

On 23/12/2024 at 16:33, NancyJohnson said:

 

It's never been about recouping costs for me and to be honest I doubt I could handle touring/lots of gigs...suppose I'm just at the point in my life where I enjoy my homelife more than playing a circuit of shitholes here in 'blighty or having a schedule that unduly affects family life/schedule outside of band.

 

In the (somewhat) unlikely event that Pearl Jam came knocking, then obviously that might change my mind.  😏

 

I think any band originals or covers established or new with a proper business plan can avoid playing $h!t holes. You have to be willing to say no.

 

Daryl

[martin8708]

On 22/12/2024 at 14:59, NancyJohnson said:

I listened - and sometimes I think I should have been working in A&R - it was woeful, formulaic, rubbish.  First track I gave a listen right through, nothing special.  The second I just listened to the first 10-15 seconds (awful) and then jumped through it a few times.  Terrible.  Then track three was more of the same and I stopped listening.  Woeful.

 

Begs the question, are my expectations too high?

 

 

From my rather limited experience of Songwriting and playing in originals bands , I think many musicians seriously underestimate the talent /skill required to write a good song . I used to write lyrics for our original band and the craft of creating a story or a message that hangs well with the music is not as easy as it seems . I have seen fellow musicians throw some words over a well worn chord progression, no wonder it sounds formulaic / stereotypical/ predictable, you can almost guess what’s coming in the next verse. 
Songwriting is a skill on its own , just because we can play guitars and sing does not make us songsmiths .

[Dan Dare]

51 minutes ago, martin8708 said:

From my rather limited experience of Songwriting and playing in originals bands , I think many musicians seriously underestimate the talent /skill required to write a good song . I used to write lyrics for our original band and the craft of creating a story or a message that hangs well with the music is not as easy as it seems . I have seen fellow musicians throw some words over a well worn chord progression, no wonder it sounds formulaic / stereotypical/ predictable, you can almost guess what’s coming in the next verse. 
Songwriting is a skill on its own , just because we can play guitars and sing does not make us songsmiths .

 

I don't think many of us underestimate what is needed to write a good song. The key word is "good", however. The fact that someone can play an instrument well may not automatically make them any good at song writing, but the more experienced and knowledgeable a musician is, the more he/she is likely to spot that something is formulaic, derivative, etc, because they are likely to have heard it or something similar before.

 

.When we are young and discovering music for the first time, everything seems fresh, new and exciting. The more we learn, the more we realise that all that glisters is not gold.

[Iheartreverb]

A bit late to this thread but I thought it was interesting.

loads of useful advise here on your questions of standard or expectations being too high.

I’ll share my experience for what it’s worth. 
I played in a band that meandered with no direction or progression (or gigs) for a few years before falling apart. One person in that band has become a frequent  collaborator since and we’ve done much more worthwhile music other. So even if a scenario is less than ideal, and I fully understand the hesitation of getting involved at that point, who knows where it could lead.

 

More recently, I used Join My Band for the first time, came across someone who couldn’t be more ideal in terms of someone to work with on another band. Not only do we have loads of common but the music he’s been working on is exceptional and he just needed someone with more confidence to help move things forwards. So far, I’d say it’s worth not discounting it as a platform.
 

Also you mention Baby Chaos, Chris produced the last EP I did with my last band. Just a funny coincidence more than anything.  

[Skybone]

On 25/12/2024 at 11:34, martin8708 said:

From my rather limited experience of Songwriting and playing in originals bands , I think many musicians seriously underestimate the talent /skill required to write a good song . I used to write lyrics for our original band and the craft of creating a story or a message that hangs well with the music is not as easy as it seems . I have seen fellow musicians throw some words over a well worn chord progression, no wonder it sounds formulaic / stereotypical/ predictable, you can almost guess what’s coming in the next verse. 
Songwriting is a skill on its own , just because we can play guitars and sing does not make us songsmiths .

 

On 25/12/2024 at 12:34, Dan Dare said:

 

I don't think many of us underestimate what is needed to write a good song. The key word is "good", however. The fact that someone can play an instrument well may not automatically make them any good at song writing, but the more experienced and knowledgeable a musician is, the more he/she is likely to spot that something is formulaic, derivative, etc, because they are likely to have heard it or something similar before.

 

.When we are young and discovering music for the first time, everything seems fresh, new and exciting. The more we learn, the more we realise that all that glisters is not gold.

Been seeing loads of singer/songwriters (as well as some bands) coming through locally, and they appear to have quite a following, but to me, the songs come across as really formulaic, where they've put some chords under some poetic, meaningful words. Just don't get it.

[BigRedX]

4 hours ago, Skybone said:

Been seeing loads of singer/songwriters (as well as some bands) coming through locally, and they appear to have quite a following, but to me, the songs come across as really formulaic, where they've put some chords under some poetic, meaningful words. Just don't get it.

 

But audiences tend to like things they are familiar with. IME lots of musicians tend to be "too clever" when it comes to song writing because they are deliberately trying not to be "formulaic" and end up with nothing for the typical audience member to relate to. 

[NancyJohnson]

Since the original post, I've had four contacts through Bandlink/JMB and all are of a similar ilk.

 

Yesterday I spoke to a bloke in his 50s who seemed proud that he was predominantly a drummer and decided to switch to guitar about a year ago because he was a Foo Fighters fan.  This alone just sounded the alarm for me.

 

Explaining he had 'lots of songs', I was given a link to a Google Drive location.  Again, disappointment.  The material was absolute drivel.  Awful everything.

 

Sigh.

[Sean]

On 28/02/2025 at 07:48, NancyJohnson said:

Since the original post, I've had four contacts through Bandlink/JMB and all are of a similar ilk.

 

Yesterday I spoke to a bloke in his 50s who seemed proud that he was predominantly a drummer and decided to switch to guitar about a year ago because he was a Foo Fighters fan.  This alone just sounded the alarm for me.

 

Explaining he had 'lots of songs', I was given a link to a Google Drive location.  Again, disappointment.  The material was absolute drivel.  Awful everything.

 

Sigh.

 

I can sympathise. I'm in a similar situation. JMB seems to have a lot of people who are just awful at communicating, don't follow through on what they say they'll do and who have a very high opinion of themselves, like the drummer/guitarist chap you've come across shows.

 

A band I know and see occasionally is looking for a replacement drummer and I was saying to them that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before finding the one. 

 

I looked back at all the bands I've played in and how they started and this now is the first time in 40 years of playing in bands that I'm unable to use my existing network of contacts to find a band that I want to play in or even needs a bassist (or guitarist). It's like becoming single after decades in a relationship and finding out that the game has changed.

 

I've resisted messaging a couple of bands because I thought I was getting desperate, there were red flags, " middle-agers that rehearse on Sundays between 7pm-1030pm to get together to play songs we like...", "lots of ideas but no full songs yet", "want to write songs about controversial topics", another that has a dozen rambling unstructured guitar/drum demos in Drop C# tuning and all in the same key with uninspiring drums.

 

@NancyJohnson are your expectations too high? Well, based on what you've said so far and the parallel experience I'm having, I'd say no. I understand the argument about 50% of the band you want and turning it around to 90% but my 50% expectation is quite high and I've been in those 50% bands before.

 

My nearest and dearest have told me to start my own thing like I did last summer but the drummer (21yo) has developed some serious health issues (can no longer drum) and the guitarist (co-writer/co-singer, close friend) got offered a job in Spain. That was an organic band formed from brilliant people I know, not recruiting strangers.

 

I've started going to more local multi-band shows and open mic nights just to expand my network but it's not easy. I've "settled" before and it's been dreadful, so I'd say, don't compromise, keep your expectations where they are but keep searching and keep on kissing a few frogs. It will happen.

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 08:37 by Sean

[NancyJohnson]

34 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

I can sympathise. I'm in a similar situation. JMB seems to have a lot of people who are just awful at communicating, don't follow through on what they say they'll do and who have a very high opinion of themselves, like the drummer/guitarist chap you've come across shows.

 

A band I know and see occasionally is looking for a replacement drummer and I was saying to them that you have to kiss a lot of frogs before finding the one. 

 

I looked back at all the bands I've played in and how they started and this now is the first time in 40 years of playing in bands that I'm unable to use my existing network of contacts to find a band that I want to play in or even needs a bassist (or guitarist). It's like becoming single after decades in a relationship and finding out that the game has changed.

 

I've resisted messaging a couple of bands because I thought I was getting desperate, there were red flags, " middle-agers that rehearse on Sundays between 7pm-1030pm to get together to play songs we like...", "lots of ideas but no full songs yet", "want to write songs about controversial topics", another that has a dozen rambling unstructured guitar/drum demos in Drop C# tuning and all in the same key with uninspiring drums.

 

@NancyJohnson are your expectations too high? Well, based on what you've said so far and the parallel experience I'm having, I'd say no. I understand the argument about 50% of the band you want and turning it around to 90% but my 50% expectation is quite high and I've been in those 50% bands before.

 

My nearest and dearest have told me to start my own thing like I did last summer but the drummer (21yo) has developed some serious health issues (can no longer drum) and the guitarist (co-writer/co-singer, close friend) got offered a job in Spain. That was an organic band formed from brilliant people I know, not recruiting strangers.

 

I've started going to more local multi-band shows and open mic nights just to expand my network but it's not easy. I've "settled" before and it's been dreadful, so I'd say, don't compromise, keep your expectations where they are but keep searching and keep on kissing a few frogs. It will happen.

 

 

 

 

This is me.  Two different bands.  Co-wrote Let's Go with the guitarist and I wrote the music for Human Resources.

 

I'm not looking to change the world or, for god's sake, 'make it'...that ship sailed many moons ago; realistically it's just to have a creative outlet writing/playing three minute songs and have hassle free fun doing it.

 

Like I say, it shouldn't be this difficult.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil Starr]

I liked those two songs and it's easy to see why you have a hunger to do it again. Good solid playing too so I can see why you wouldn't want the standards to fall there either.

 

I absolutely don't think your expectations are unreasonable but they are quite high which means your odds of achieving them are reduced. You are asking foir a high level of creative input into the music that means you would also expect to be one of the bands driving forces and effectively a band leader. You've been co-writing songs so you are obviously a co-operator but also quite driven and demanding which probably comes with being creative. Your tastes are probably more niche than you think, I had to google all the bands you listed, the 90's not really being my decade. You've been playing for nearly 40 years so you are probably late 50's so the people you want to hook up with are probably a similar age. You are fishing in a diminishing pool. Your contemporaries will have their peak of work and family commitments and many will no longer be playing, those that have continued throughout will be in established bands playing sets they are happy with. Many will have succumbed to the lure of covers bands and regular paid gigs. Existing bands looking for a bassist will want you to play their sets at least initially. I'm not saying thai to be depressing but it's a bit like dating in later life; by this time you know what you want, there's no point in an unsatisfactory relationship but at the same time dating is more demanding than when you were younger and more pliant. It's worth thinking about what is really essential and what you might be prepared to compromise on.

 

I suppose if I've any advice it's maybe to look for a creative partner you can work with. Two of you are halfway to forming a band and between you will be a strong driving force. There are plenty of fine musicians who are not particularly driven but like to play with a properly organised going concern.

 

Anyway good luck with your search, I hope you find your people.

 

 

 

 

[Sean]

On 28/02/2025 at 07:48, NancyJohnson said:

Since the original post, I've had four contacts through Bandlink/JMB and all are of a similar ilk.

 

This below is typical of JMB. A lot of the time people just don't check their messages. This is my current "unread sent messages".

The last two are now over a week old and haven't been read. It's par for the course on JMB. It's not instant, relies on email notifications and it's clunky. Bandmix wants about £12 a month to give you any functionality and I find it easy to find Bassists but not anyone looking for one.

 

 

[tubbybloke68]

Like when a band advertises a vacancy, you express interest, send a few video clips of your playing etc and they can’t even be bothered to say thanks but no thanks sort of thing.obviously there’s a lot better players out there than myself , but at the same time i wouldn’t rate myself as crap ! I’d call it common courtesy?? Sp prehaps my expectations ARE too high?🤣.

Drivers or cyclists not using indicators/hand signals expecting you to be telepathic in knowing what they’re gonna do 
Dog owners decorating bushes with their shit bags  and conveniently forgetting to take them home. 
Going for a walk and saying ‘good morning’ to someone and just getting ignored or at best some type of inaudible grunt. 
oh i could go on ….🤣 room 101 beckons! 

Yep! I my expectations of people are definitely too high 🤣, or I’m just getting grumpy with age 🤣x 

[tubbybloke68]

Sorry duplicate post so deleted! 

Edited Sunday at 14:50 by tubbybloke68

[gjones]

My decider about joining a band is, would I be embarrassed  to invite friends and family, or other musicians, to a gig where that band was playing? 

 

If the answer is yes, then I don't join them.

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 16:48 by gjones