Blown Speaker in Barefaced Two10

[kuras]

Hi all,

 

I’ve run into an issue with my Two10 and I’m looking for some advice from anyone who’s been in a similar situation.

 

I’ve owned the cab for 7 years and use it maybe 30 times a year, mostly with a clean sound using my Bassman 135. The 135 is generally turned up to around 5 for the gigs I play. It’s never a gnarly, aggressive sound, and I never use fuzz pedals etc.

 

One of the speakers in my cab has started distorting, almost as if there’s an overdrive pedal in the signal path. At first, I thought it might be a wiring issue, but after extensive troubleshooting (including swapping basses, leads, the wiring and isolating the speakers) I’ve confirmed that the problem lies with one specific speaker.

 

I took the cab to a tech who tested the speaker. It measured 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms but still moved properly when a signal was applied, and didn’t exhibit any obvious voice coil rub. However, while tapping on the cone, he noticed a sound as if something inside the speaker was loose. He suspects it’s an internal issue.

 

I’ve reached out to Alex and had a couple of responses asking me to describe the distortion and where in the speaker it’s coming from. I know the Two10 uses custom-designed Eminence drivers, so a direct replacement might be tricky to source. I’d love to hear from anyone who has had to replace a driver in a Barefaced cab or anyone with advice on the closest replacement speaker that could work without compromising the cab’s performance.

Edited 23 hours ago by kuras

[fretmeister]

Presumably Barefaced can replace the driver for you?

 

Anything else will massively devalue it if you ever sell it on.

[Mudpup]

Just ask Alex for a replacement speaker - It'll be a lottery putting something else in there. And as fretmeister says above you'll lose all the resale value in the cab if you wanted to move it on.

Edited 23 hours ago by Mudpup

[chris_b]

My guess is that Barefaced will want to troubleshoot the issue and then take appropriate action.  Why are you thinking about 3rd party replacement drivers? They almost certainly won't match the other driver in the cab. I would do what Barefaced asks and follow their recommendations, even if it means them sending you a replacement driver.

[Dan Dare]

Just bite the bullet and get a replacement driver from BF. You won't have to worry about whether or not it matches or whether it will work.

[Downunderwonder]

Alex will be quite interested in how you managed to blow up anything BF with 135W. 

[kuras]

I have a number of gigs coming up and would like to get this fixed very soon and not wait until he is back at work. 
 

im also very interested to hear how a 135 destroyed a speaker with all the claims of very few speakers blowing

[Steve Browning]

Is it possible that it's a 4ohm speaker fitted incorrectly and has finally given out?

 

Just a guess but may be possible.  Actual experts here can advise. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Steve Browning

[ossyrocks]

1 hour ago, kuras said:

I have a number of gigs coming up and would like to get this fixed very soon and not wait until he is back at work. 
 

im also very interested to hear how a 135 destroyed a speaker with all the claims of very few speakers blowing

I would find an alternative cab to use in the interim, and have the speaker replaced with a BF as soon as you are able. 
 

Alex is an affable chap. I run his cabs too. I have a Bassman 50, and have used a 135, at 5 it’s fairly cranking to be fair and is far louder than any equivalent Class D amp. You’ve had 7 years of running this, so I would just say it’s one of those things that happens sometimes.

[NAS Bass]

1 hour ago, Downunderwonder said:

Alex will be quite interested in how you managed to blow up anything BF with 135W. 

A 135w Bassman will blow a driver no problem. My money would be on a distorted signal and/or too much bottom end. Burned voice coil?

[fretmeister]

58 minutes ago, ossyrocks said:

I would find an alternative cab to use in the interim, and have the speaker replaced with a BF as soon as you are able. 
 

Alex is an affable chap. I run his cabs too. I have a Bassman 50, and have used a 135, at 5 it’s fairly cranking to be fair and is far louder than any equivalent Class D amp. You’ve had 7 years of running this, so I would just say it’s one of those things that happens sometimes.

 

 

This.

 

Borrow or even hire another cab until you can get it fixed. It's just not worth doing half a job on an expensive cab.

You could pick something up on Reverb or Ebay for buttons if you can cope with a heavy old cab for a gig or two. 

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, NAS Bass said:

A 135w Bassman will blow a driver no problem. My money would be on a distorted signal and/or too much bottom end. Burned voice coil?

The BF 10 is a solid 200w driver and BF rate the cab as fiine for  500w so long as it stays clean.

 

Fully distorted a 135w tube amp is 270w of howling misery so not going to bother a BF 210.

[NAS Bass]

7 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

The BF 10 is a solid 200w driver and BF rate the cab as fiine for  500w so long as it stays clean.

 

Fully distorted a 135w tube amp is 270w of howling misery so not going to bother a BF 210.

Nothing to do with watts. I’ve seen and experienced low powered amps taking out speakers, usually the voice coil, because of a distorted signal. I suspect this may have been the case with the OPs 135w tube head. When I’ve seen it happen, it’s usually been caused by a tube head or distortion effect - nothing to do with power handling. I’ve know this happen with an Orange 120 and an Aguilar 412 - two speaker coils burned out. 

Edited 10 hours ago by NAS Bass

[ossyrocks]

Just to add. Yes, the BF drivers are custom built for BF, but BF will not sell a driver separately. I know because I asked Alex to sell me a 12 and he politely declined.

I'm sure they would replace the driver for you though. I'm also sure Alex would love to investigate the cause of the problem himself.

 

Rob

[warwickhunt]

45 minutes ago, NAS Bass said:

Nothing to do with watts. I’ve seen and experienced low powered amps taking out speakers, usually the voice coil, because of a distorted signal. I suspect this may have been the case with the OPs 135w tube head. When I’ve seen it happen, it’s usually been caused by a tube head or distortion effect - nothing to do with power handling. I’ve know this happen with an Orange 120 and an Aguilar 412 - two speaker coils burned out. 

 

So what is the actual evidence that lead to these conclusions?  

 

Distortion effects taking out voice coils, valve watts killing 400-800w cabs... guitarists can drive valve amps into distortion and put them through 100w cabs with no ill effects!

[Downunderwonder]

Do tubes suffer DC offset? That's about the only way 135w can blow a BF woofer while still sounding clean.

 

I wonder if someone else had access to the cab? Either that or it's pure oddball failure of the stuff happens kind.

[DGBass]

I think its curious that only one of the two drivers has a problem. If they were both subjected to the same usage, I think it would be fair to expect both to wear at a similar rate. Re the 4 ohm/8 ohm thing, I'm sure the earlier BF210 were 8ohm/400w rated, that may have gone up to 500w in time which may suggest the later drivers were refined or improved in some way. 2 x 4ohm drivers wired in series? When i used two BF 110's I recall asking BF about replacement speakers for them and at the time they said for all the 110, 210, and 410 cabs they had sold up to that point, they hadn't had a single driver failure reported. Reliability was in fact very good. That was a few years ago now and I suppose driver specs may change so a current replacement may be slighty better than the original from 7 years ago. As has been said, it would probably be in BF's interest to do a post mortem on a failed driver, if only to rule out any late manufacturing issues that are only showing up after several years of use. Things coming apart due to dried out adhesives, or bits of a brittle coil former snapping of and rattling around in the magnet air gap, or a loose spider assembly are all things that can't normally be viewed externally. I'm not suggesting your driver has any of that but the only sure way to find out is likely taking the thing apart. I'm guessing the cab is well past its warranty date so BF would be within their rights to charge the going rate for a cab repair. There's nothing to loose by dealing with them in the first instance except maybe a few quid for a repair. Its worth getting it repaired with the right units so it can keep performing as designed. Sticking a couple of beta 10's in your cab might get it going and be cheaper but it won't perform anything like it has previously done. Still, i'm surprised a premium product like a BF cab has developed problems after just seven years. Speaker drivers do fail occasionally, and they always will as long as they are around. Seems a bit premature though.

[Lozz196]

Am I right in thinking that the BF210 still has one speaker that is full range and one which handles only the low end? If so would be interested to know which of these it is that`s gone.

[NAS Bass]

2 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

 

So what is the actual evidence that lead to these conclusions?  

 

Distortion effects taking out voice coils, valve watts killing 400-800w cabs... guitarists can drive valve amps into distortion and put them through 100w cabs with no ill effects!

Thought I'd said? Never mind, only trying to help the OP with what I've experienced. Guitarists play at different frequencies too.

[bertbass]

With the cab horizontal, the left speaker is full range, I think I remember that correctly and the older cabs are 4 ohms.

[kuras]

55 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Am I right in thinking that the BF210 still has one speaker that is full range and one which handles only the low end? If so would be interested to know which of these it is that`s gone.

The full range speaker has the fault

And yes it says, 4 ohm cab & 400 watts 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

4 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

Distortion effects taking out voice coils, valve watts killing 400-800w cabs... guitarists can drive valve amps into distortion and put them through 100w cabs with no ill effects!

Quite right. Clipped wave forms are harmful for tweeters, as they can increase the power in the high frequencies well above what what the tweeter normally receives. But no matter how hard the clipping the power will never exceed what the woofer normally receives in the lows. By the OPs description there's no obvious reason for the driver failure. Only an autopsy will reveal it.

Edited 5 hours ago by Bill Fitzmaurice

[kuras]

Did the speakers in the Two10s change somehow? I notice they now handle 500 watts instead of 400