Blown Speaker in Barefaced Two10

[chris_b]

18 minutes ago, kuras said:

Nope. While I was grateful for quick delivery once I managed to get hold of them via the phone, it’s shame to find they weren’t more interested in the problem with their speaker 

 

They see more data than we do, so maybe they were able to determine the likely cause of the problem.

 

Depending on the number of driver failures they see and the various circumstances, maybe their guess was the driver wasn't at fault.

[Chienmortbb]

42 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

They see more data than we do, so maybe they were able to determine the likely cause of the problem.

 

Depending on the number of driver failures they see and the various circumstances, maybe their guess was the driver wasn't at fault.

More to the point is that they cannot guarantee how the driver is used, although they invite damage with 500W RMS (800W clean).

[Woody1957]

2 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You're not wrong. It's perfectly safe to use an amp rated at even ten times the speaker rating so long as you employ the volume control. It's perfectly safe to use an amp rated at one tenth the speaker rating as well, even if you crank it into hard clipping, so long as you don't have a tweeter. The myth of underpowering came about decades ago after JBL published a document on how amplifier clipping could damage 'the high frequency components of their loudspeaker systems high frequency devices'. It probably took three re-tellings of the tale, if not less, before 'clipping can damage high frequency components' morphed into 'clipping kills speakers'. Engineers like myself have been countering that notion ever since, but it's like a never ending game of whack a mole. The truth of the matter is succinctly summed up in this quote:

 

There's no such thing as "underpowering" a loudspeaker. The loudspeakers really don't care about the shape of the waveform. A square wave is not by itself a killer of tweeters, woofers, etc. Well over 90% of the power put into a loudspeaker driver turns into heat, whether the waveform is square or not. Overpowering (thermal damage from too much power) and over-excursion (excessive cone travel, typically from low frequency energy) are what damage loudspeakers.

 

Bob Lee
Applications Engineer, Tech Services Group QSC Audio
Secretary, Audio Engineering Society

 

Rebuttal is welcome from anyone claiming to have Bob Lee's level of expertise.

 

I think that's well and truly top trumped my theory and experience I had from totally killing my WEM Dominator combo at full volume while trying to keep up with our drummer from yesteryear.......I'II get my coat..

[Merton]

2 hours ago, kuras said:

Nope. While I was grateful for quick delivery once I managed to get hold of them via the phone, it’s shame to find they weren’t more interested in the problem with their speaker 

In my day job if someone came to me and told me a product had failed several years beyond its warranty, I doubt I’d consider the need to ask for it back*. As @Dan Dare has said, components wear out and fail and there’s no way of knowing how it’s been used over the years.

 

 

*That said, there was one occasion when a customer couldn’t understand why I didn’t need the gauge back despite their photos of it crushed under a forklift 🤣

[Downunderwonder]

6 hours ago, kuras said:

Nope. While I was grateful for quick delivery once I managed to get hold of them via the phone, it’s shame to find they weren’t more interested in the problem with their speaker 

Perhaps @stevie would be curious enough to do an autopsy on it.

 

You are dead sure it never got thrashed by a bigger amp when you weren't looking?

[chris_b]

6 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

More to the point is that they cannot guarantee how the driver is used, although they invite damage with 500W RMS (800W clean).

 

Do they?

 

If that was the case we would probably have heard about many more failures than we have. 

Edited 20 hours ago by chris_b

[agedhorse]

8 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

It seems we're starting to strain at this. Those with years of expertise and experience, such as Bill, Aged Horse and Stevie, have given good advice above, which should be all we need.

 

To summarise, don't abuse your gear, ensure it matches (within reason - a 1000w amp with a 100w cab is almost bound to end in tears, but smaller discrepancies are fine as long as you are sensible) and that you use it within its specified limits.

 

Accept that drive units, as mechanical devices, are going to wear out/fail on occasion. Even electronics components don't last for ever. C'est la vie.

Reasonably powered, a quality bass guitar driver shouldn't wear out for many decades. Accidental damage and defects are a different matter of course.

[Woody1957]

16 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

It seems we're starting to strain at this. Those with years of expertise and experience, such as Bill, Aged Horse and Stevie, have given good advice above, which should be all we need.

 

I get your point, but don't forget the bass players on this forum who have years of pro/semi pro experience, but without the so called technical knowledge that have witnessed otherwise....

[agedhorse]

7 hours ago, Woody1957 said:

I get your point, but don't forget the bass players on this forum who have years of pro/semi pro experience, but without the so called technical knowledge that have witnessed otherwise....

Don’t forget that sone of us have designed these products commercially for decades and have a much larger view of the results of “player versus speaker” interactions. 

[Beedster]

22 hours ago, Woody1957 said:

I think that's well and truly top trumped my theory and experience I had from totally killing my WEM Dominator combo at full volume while trying to keep up with our drummer from yesteryear.......I'II get my coat..

 

7 hours ago, Woody1957 said:

I get your point, but don't forget the bass players on this forum who have years of pro/semi pro experience, but without the so called technical knowledge that have witnessed otherwise....

 

But the list of reasons why one person's experience of gear failing doesn't generalise is huge. If we all bought all of our gear from new, looked after it (no drops, spilled beer, lends to a mate for a gig etc....), didn't modify it, had it routinely checked and maintained by a professional, and stored it in optimal environments, then perhaps there's a case. But many of us buy used gear so have no idea whether any of the above criteria have been breached, and even when bought new we often don't take very good care (at least not as good as we assume we do), adopt routine maintenance etc. So stuff fails, and when it does we tend to draw an ad -hoc hypothesis along the lines "too much power/distortion" etc. The number of amps I've bought used that when taken to a tech - or even when checked over b y me and I'm very far from expert - turn out to have been damaged, modded, poorly repaired, or simply allowed to fall into poor repair, is probably testament to all of the above 

 

So when your WEM Dominator (nice unit BTW) went, it could have been the results of so many things other than the volume 👍

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

7 hours ago, Woody1957 said:

I get your point, but don't forget the bass players on this forum who have years of pro/semi pro experience, but without the so called technical knowledge that have witnessed otherwise....

We're not saying that you didn't witness what you witnessed. We're saying the cause of what you witnessed isn't what you think it was. And why would you? Without technical training one cannot be expected to make a diagnosis of why a driver failed. The value of threads like this one is it allows those without technical training to learn from those who do. But one can only lead a horse to water. From there on what happens is up to the horse. 

[Stub Mandrel]

If gear fails well out of warranty (7 years) there's really nothing to learn whatever the failure mode.

 

That's into the lifetime where random failures due to small manufacturing defects become possible. No matter what is said about the level and nature of usage, it has to be taken with a large pinch of salt as some people will be scrupulously honest and others may of thrashed it every night but not want to admit it. The have no way of being sure what the speaker has endured.

 

If BF get virtually no failures and they are all beyond warranty, then there is little reason to change.

 

If it was a 7-sigma, safety critical aircraft component it would be different.

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

If it was a 7-sigma, safety critical aircraft component it would be different.

Agreed and if Airbus/Boeing/Lockheed made speaker chassis they would be carbon fibre. I also agree that 7 years is not unreasonable for a speaker although many will go on decades longer.

Edited 1 hour ago by Chienmortbb