Who knows their modes.

[bubinga5]

I was just wondering what others felt about Modes. How did you learn them.  Did you find it hard to get your head around. Do you find them interesting musically. I came to the end my journey thinking why I found them hard in the first place.

[TheLowDown]

At first I found them very esoteric to begin with, perhaps because of the way they're often explained. I can't recall my eureka moment though, but I think it was when someone suggested thinking more in terms of the scale degrees than notes that it started to come together. So many times I heard many many people saying something like "Dorian is just the major scale but starting on D", but that's not the way to think about it, and this confused me no end because there were other explanations. When I began to think of Dorian as the major scale with flat 3rd and flat 7th is when it clicked because it doesn't have to start on D(when using the C major scale to explain it).

 

I think they're very important to be aware of because their theory relates to lots of other things too(such as the notes of each scale, more soloing possibilities, the family of chords in a chord progression. It enables you to understand why things work the way they do), but not particularly important for most regular bassists when playing day to day. I think they're important to be aware of too when wanting to improve because it shows you different options.

Edited December 27, 2024 by TheLowDown

[Reggaebass]

Probably sounds a bit nerdy but I really enjoyed learning my scales and modes, I went through many books and videos, if I’m learning a Bassline the first thing I do now is see how it’s related to a scale, I also found running up and down the 2 octave good exercises, love a pentatonic too 

[ezbass]

I learnt the basic 7 and some of the others as part of my guitar (I know), Musician’s Institute course. Never consciously used them after that. I think that they’re useful for analysing parts (I instantly recognised the use of the Phrygian for the outro of Steely Dan’s, Haitian Divorce, for instance), but for actually, in the moment playing, or writing a line, not so much. In short, I find them more of a mental exercise than a musical one.

[Bilbo]

Learn them and then forget it. 

[Terry M.]

On 27/12/2024 at 17:32, TheLowDown said:

At first I found them very esoteric to begin with, perhaps because of the way they're often explained. I can't recall my eureka moment though, but I think it was when someone suggested thinking more in terms of the scale degrees than notes that it started to come together. So many times I heard many many people saying something like "Dorian is just the major scale but starting on D", but that's not the way to think about it, and this confused me no end because there were other explanations. When I began to think of Dorian as the major scale with flat 3rd and flat 7th is when it clicked because it doesn't have to start on D(when using the C major scale to explain it).

 

I think they're very important to be aware of because their theory relates to lots of other things too(such as the notes of each scale, more soloing possibilities, the family of chords in a chord progression. It enables you to understand why things work the way they do), but not particularly important for most regular bassists when playing day to day. I think they're important to be aware of too when wanting to improve because it shows you different options.

Would thinking of the Dorian as a minor scale with a raised 6th been any easier?

[Terry M.]

I learned them by thinking of the 2nd Dorian mode as minor scale with raised 6th,3rd Phrygian scale as minor scale with lowered 2nd,4th Lydian mode as major scale with raised 4th,5th Mixolydian mode as major scale with lowered 7th,6 Aoelian mode as natural minor scale and 7th Locrian mode as minor scale with lowered 2nd and 5th degrees. I find them useful when working with composers who write modally as the notes to "avoid" become obvious. 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Terry M.

[Robbo]

I have started dabbling with the Modes and Theory or should I say it’s hopefully going to be my New Year’s resolution lol, the plan is to drastically improve my Bass playing and Knowledge over the coming years hopefully I will stick to it, my biggest obstacle is time I have a part time job but I’m a full time carer for my wife so not making excuses my time is very limited, I start work at 2am until 7.30am then when I get home I look after my wife and run the house, shopping, cleaning, cooking and the gardening etc so it’s a pretty hectic life style, this is 24/7 every day, I try to put some time aside to practice but need to set up a routine and hopefully stick to it, it’s just a release but I would love to improve.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Robbo

[JapanAxe]

I can recognise when modes are being used, eg today I have been playing ‘Coz I Luv You’ by Slade, which leans heavily on the Phrygian. But I never bothered learning them by rote.

 

To me their most useful aspect is modal interchange, where chords are ‘borrowed’ from other modes - it’s used a lot in rock, particularly using chords from the parallel minor (Aeolian mode).

[TheLowDown]

4 hours ago, Terry M. said:

Would thinking of the Dorian as a minor scale with a raised 6th been any easier?

Not for me because I don't see any benefit of that, but it may do for others. I like to keep things simple so I want to see all the modes as being variations of the major(Ionian )scale, so dorian being a major scale with flat 3rd and flat 7th works best for me.

 

[Terry M.]

3 hours ago, TheLowDown said:

Not for me because I don't see any benefit of that, but it may do for others. I like to keep things simple so I want to see all the modes as being variations of the major(Ionian )scale, so dorian being a major scale with flat 3rd and flat 7th works best for me.

 

Fair play if that works best for you 👍 Simple for me is viewing anything with a minor 3rd as some type of minor scale with whatever alteration is required. So the Locrian as I've explained then comes with only two alterations as opposed to five when viewed as a variation of the major scale. Interesting. 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Terry M.

[Bagman]

On 30/12/2024 at 11:45, JapanAxe said:

I can recognise when modes are being used, eg today I have been playing ‘Coz I Luv You’ by Slade, which leans heavily on the Phrygian. But I never bothered learning them by rote.

 

To me their most useful aspect is modal interchange, where chords are ‘borrowed’ from other modes - it’s used a lot in rock, particularly using chords from the parallel minor (Aeolian mode).

Careless Whisper 

Saxophone run is A Phrygian 

 

Modes - Diatonic Harmony - compulsory learning for me 

[Mikey D]

Originally I learned them in order of 'white notes' starting on a different degree of the C major scale as someone else mentioned above.

 

Then I understood the shapes of each when playing on bass and started thinking of them as a sequence of tones and half tones. 

 

Practice was typically in that order in different keys playing one mode over static chords/vamps.

 

Then I started playing the modes in order of "brightness"-"darkness". This way only one note changes at a time between the modes so you can hear the subtle (or not so subtle changes) it also groups the modes together as major or minor.

With E as the starting note for each mode:

Major
Lydian: E F# G# A# B C# D# E
Ionian: E F# G# A B C# D# E
Mixolydian: E F# G# A B C# D E

Minor
Dorian: E F# G A B C# D E
Aeolian: E F# G A B C D E
Phrygian: E F G A B C D E
Locrian: E F G A Bb C D E

 

Then I started thinking of them as triad pairs above the root of E. So Lydian was F#maj and G#min over E, Ionian was F#min and G#min over E etc.

 

Once I was comfortable with these I moved onto modes of melodic minor and harmonic minor. Tbh I wish I started using them sooner but it wasn't until I really started studying jazz properly I went down that route.

 

Playing 30 years now and don't really think about them consciously. Depending on what you play I think they have value in learning but having taught many people over the years find some never get it and others find all different routes into understanding or hearing them.