Continuous battery drain

[ReeV0]

Hi all, wondering if someone could help me with a problem.

 

I gave my Ibanez ATK805 to my tech a couple of months ago to replace the original 1/4" jack, as it had become a little loose (audio signal would cut out if the cable was twisted in a certain way).

 

Within a couple days, he replaced the jack without any issues. I used the bass at a couple of rehearsals and everything seemed fine.

 

A couple weeks later, I took the bass out for band practice only to find the 9v battery was completely dead. Thought it a bit strange as in 10 years of playing, I've only replaced the 9v once or twice on any of my basses. No matter, battery replaced and all working again.

 

However, I took it out again for another rehearsal the following week, and the battery was dead/dying again. All farty. Replaced it with my last spare 9v and all was fine again.

 

Took the bass back to the tech and explained the problem. He's since replaced the jack a further two times, with two different jacks, and the battery drain issue still persists. He cannot think of anything else that can be causing it, and is certain its all wired up correctly...

 

Can anyone think of anything that might have been missed?

[binky_bass]

Incorrectly wired jack. Take it back to your tech and get them to do it again properly! The battery should only be engaged when the jack is inserted in the socket, sounds very much like it's been wired in such a way that the battery is permanently engaged.

[ReeV0]

53 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

Incorrectly wired jack. Take it back to your tech and get them to do it again properly! The battery should only be engaged when the jack is inserted in the socket, sounds very much like it's been wired in such a way that the battery is permanently engaged.

Yep that was the first thing be assumed, though he was certain it was wired up the same as the previous jack. Regardless he re-wired it again but opposite, and the problem persisted. Hence we're both now stumped!

[Richard R]

Yep, jack is wired incorrectly. 

The socket should be a stereo TRS socket, with the -ve line of the battery running to the ring, then from the sleeve on to the circuit board ground. There is no current flow until a mono jack is inserted, bridging the connections.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Richard R
Noticed I had sleeve and ring the wrong way round. It doesn't matter, but didn't match the pic below.

[Richard R]

Edited December 28, 2024 by Richard R
Diagram from StewMac web site: https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-guitar-pickups-and-electronics-and-wiring/understanding-guitar-wiring-part-7-output-jacks/

[Richard R]

If it's not that, then maybe shorting across the battery terminals somehow?

 

[tauzero]

There's a very simple way to check if the socket wiring is right if you have a multimeter. Plug a stereo jack plug into the socket (it can be a stereo plug on a lead as long as it's stereo both ends) and measure the voltage between the ring and the sleeve. If it's 9V or so (with a new battery), the wiring is right. If it's 0V, the wiring is wrong. I've just had a thought - if the battery negative has been soldered to the sleeve and the socket has a metal outer, and there's conductive lining on the control cavity (eg copper tape), the battery will be making a permanent connection with ground - the battery should connect to the ring and the ground to sleeve.

[Doctor J]

Find a new tech. If the guy can't figure out something as basic as this after needlessly replacing parts a number of times, you should bring it to someone who knows what they're doing instead.

[Hellzero]

Ibanez is using barrel jacks and they are not all made the same way.

 

When replacing such output jacks I always use a stereo jack plug to check the lugs (connectivity) to know which one is which, that's the safer way to replace these.

 

If your tech is simply soldering wires were they were using a photo or a sharpie, then he is no tech at all.

 

Better find a real one.

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Hellzero
Forgot one important word.

[Richard R]

5 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Ibanez is using barrel jacks and they are not all made the same way.

 

When replacing such output jacks I always use a stereo jack plug to check the lugs (connectivity) to know which one is which, that's the safer way to replace these.

Useful tip.

👍🏻

[mcnach]

On 27/12/2024 at 21:56, binky_bass said:

Incorrectly wired jack. Take it back to your tech and get them to do it again properly! The battery should only be engaged when the jack is inserted in the socket, sounds very much like it's been wired in such a way that the battery is permanently engaged.

 

If the tech rewired it already 2-3 times, I doubt this path would lead anywhere useful... Time for a new tech, the wiring is not exactly rocket surgery 😉

[ReeV0]

Update - took it to another tech, they couldn't figure out the problem either. It just seems to be random... For example, the battery can last fine for two weeks, and then I will play it on day 15 and it'll be completely dead, and I mean completely. But there would be no buzzing or any kind of indication of a dying battery on day 14.

 

Of course I now really wish I never had the original jack replaced for what was in hindsight a very minor issue!

[Hellzero]

Can you put a photo of the output jack with the wires connected, which let us see where these wires are coming for?

[Hellzero]

PS: 15 days is the average time a battery will take to be dead flat with a modern chip even if the 70's LM4250 chipset will take something like 4 or 5 years to totally drain a 9 Volts battery when always powered...

[ReeV0]

Sure, I will take a pic soon. I don't understand your second comment - prior to the jack replacement, the 9v would last months and months. In fact, I don't recall ever changing it in my 3 years of ownership. I also have the exact same bass in 4-string variant, similarly, I have never changed the battery in that either. I will take a pic of the wiring for comparison.

[Hellzero]

Okay, here it is explained differently: If you leave your jack always plugged, a modern circuitry preamp will take approximately 2 weeks to completely drain the battery.

 

But an old chipset from the 70's named LM4250 and used in the Stingray 2 EQ preamp will take 4 or 5 years to completely drain an always on battery, but that chipset is the exception confirming rule.

 

Edited January 12 by Hellzero

[ReeV0]

14 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Okay, here it is explained differently: If you leave your jack always plugged, a modern circuitry preamp will take approximately 2 weeks to completely drain the battery.

 

But an old chipset from the 70's named LM4250 and used in the Stingray 2 EQ preamp will take 4 or 5 years to completely drain an always on battery, but that chipset is the exception confirming rule.

 

Ah, understood! I just found it strange that there was absolutely no buzzing or low battery indication the previous day, and then it was completely dead the next. I have also been turning the volume on the bass to zero after unplugging the jack, just for good measure. But it hasn't seemed to have made any difference

[Richard R]

Where are you based?

 

Clearly there is something a bit weird going on if two techs haven't found it, but you might be near someone  who can provide a third pair of eyes, or an imminent Bass Bash. 

[ReeV0]

47 minutes ago, Richard R said:

Where are you based?

 

Clearly there is something a bit weird going on if two techs haven't found it, but you might be near someone  who can provide a third pair of eyes, or an imminent Bass Bash. 

Near Southampton. I'm a bit reluctant to have a third tech look through it as I'm worried about wire fatigue and spare parts. Finding this bass was like a needle in a haystack and there are no spare parts available for it if something were to break 😔

[tauzero]

Did you try my suggestion?

[ReeV0]

I've taken some pics, sorry they aren't very clear.

 

The light brown bass is the 4-string with the original Ibanez jack.

The dark brown bass is the 5-string with the newly replaced jack.

 

@tauzero, I haven't unfortunately as I don't have a multimeter. If I take it to someone else, I will show them your suggestion.

[Hellzero]

The battery is always on.

 

Your two techs are utter idiots who can't even use a simple multimeter.

 

The non soldered lug should be the battery negative, because where it's soldered is the permanent ground, like where the ground is soldered, so a battery always on.

 

As I wrote, there are different barrel jacks, and this one is a 3 lugs plus ground.

[tauzero]

12 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

The battery is always on.

 

Your two techs are utter idiots who can't even use a simple multimeter.

 

The non soldered lug should be the battery negative, because where it's soldered is the permanent ground, like where the ground is soldered, so a battery always on.

 

As I wrote, there are different barrel jacks, and this one is a 3 lugs plus ground.

 

Agreed, that's exactly how it looks to me.

[Hellzero]

And here are the 4 lugs explained, but I doubt your two "techs" can understand this very simple "diagram".

 

[ReeV0]

Thanks for the replies. The tech tried around 3 different barrel jacks, only the last of which has the 4 lugs which is what is currently installed. I just can't understand how he would have wired each one of them up incorrectly every time! I'm sure he told me he had reversed the wiring at one point, just to try and see if that fixed it - which it didn't.