In ear dilemma ? 😔

[patrikmarky]

My band is pushing for going “in ear “ ..no monitor or back line never been a fan of it but I’ve never tried it …any advice  or opinions and experience or doing this after 40 years of playing good or bad would be appreciated 

[warwickhunt]

MASSIVE and informative thread if you do a quick site search for IEM Bible. 

 

[warwickhunt]

I should say that I've gone the same route in the last year after 40+ years of big beefy amps and cabs.  More positives than negatives... probably... no, definitely... most of the time!  LOL

[redd]

Like Warwickhunt said, there's a massive conversation about this already in existence. Only thing I would say is don't try and save money on cheap IEMs. Finding a decent set with good bass response was a massive toil for me. Eventually paid around 900 quid for a set of in ear moulds and 6 drivers per ear. If you think about the combined processing power (and money) of your bands mics, preamps, modellers, etc, why are we all then surprised when it doesn't sound good through our 90 quid set of headphones?

 

(Saying that I bought a pair of KZs as a back up for around 35 quid and they were surprisingly good. As good as my 900 quid pair? No, but my moulded ones aren't worth an extra 850. Ah well you live and learn). 

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, redd said:

Like Warwickhunt said, there's a massive conversation about this already in existence. Only thing I would say is don't try and save money on cheap IEMs. Finding a decent set with good bass response was a massive toil for me. Eventually paid around 900 quid for a set of in ear moulds and 6 drivers per ear. If you think about the combined processing power (and money) of your bands mics, preamps, modellers, etc, why are we all then surprised when it doesn't sound good through our 90 quid set of headphones?

 

(Saying that I bought a pair of KZs as a back up for around 35 quid and they were surprisingly good. As good as my 900 quid pair? No, but my moulded ones aren't worth an extra 850. Ah well you live and learn). 

 

I would also add that if you aren't going to go the full custom mould, you need to find an IEM that fits your ear shape.  I bought the KZs and couldn't get on with the fit, moved over to Sennheiser 100s and they fit 'me' superbly (regardless of the buds used).  I'm sure it's all over on the Bible thread though!    

[Phil Starr]

Stick with it, once you get it working properly it is a revelation. Getting studio quality sound in your ears with a mix which is individual to you is just so good for your playing. Feels odd at first but you soon get adjusted and it becomes normal. The music itself becomes a bigger part of the performance once you can hear everything. You'll be much tighter as a band once you adjust. I'd never go back

 

 

[Franticsmurf]

59 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

Stick with it, once you get it working properly it is a revelation. Getting studio quality sound in your ears with a mix which is individual to you is just so good for your playing. Feels odd at first but you soon get adjusted and it becomes normal. The music itself becomes a bigger part of the performance once you can hear everything. You'll be much tighter as a band once you adjust. I'd never go back

 

 

I'd certainly recommend the dedicated thread elsewhere on BC for a range of opinions, advice and information. But my personal experience is as @Phil Starr says. It took me probably 6 months of building up confidence in what I was hearing through the 'phones, getting the mix right and getting the technical side right (finding the right 'phones and buds). I would not go back to physical monitors now for the main band (The Hulla) I play in. I can hear an improvement in my backing vocals now I can hear myself properly, I feel my bass playing has improved now I can hear clearly what's going on and I'm playing with the actual sound I spent ages and ££s getting right rather than a muffled version through old monitor speakers. I would add that in my experience having a dedicated sound engineer has made the process of switching to IEM much easier as I've been able to work with him to refine the mix I'm hearing. The rest of the band, with two exceptions, are not using IEM but I don't think it will be long before the majority see the light.

 

In bands where I dep, I tend to plug in to the headphone socket on the desk so that I can hear the vocals through my IEM and use different earbuds so that some of the backline sound comes through. It's not ideal but in the circumstances I can get a decent enough balance. In both cases there is a very valuable bonus in that I can manage the volumes and protect my hearing.       

[JPJ]

My experience is similarly positive. Like Warwickhunt, I found the KZ’s didn’t fit my ear shape (particularly the left ear for some reason). I’m also successfully using the Sennheiser 100’s coupled with the X-Vive U4 transmitter/receiver setup. As other have said, there is extensive information available on the IEM mega thread here, and I’ll add don’t expect to get your mix right first time out of the box. It takes time to get the eq right on your IEM feed, and the balance across all instruments. But stick with it, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. Playing on a big stage, the ability to wander around taking your mix with you is revelational, and playing small gigs where you are stood on top of your amp crammed in next to the drummer work equally well and you’ll love the lack of tinnitus post-gig. 

Currently resisting the urge to splash the cash on custom moulded in-ears and a UHF-based transmitter receiver setup, surely overkill for my needs but my gear sluttery and GAS are a strong persuasive force.

Edited Wednesday at 12:59 by JPJ

[patrikmarky]

1 hour ago, JPJ said:

My experience is similarly positive. Like Warwickhunt, I found the KZ’s didn’t fit my ear shape (particularly the left ear for some reason). I’m also successfully using the Sennheiser 100’s coupled with the X-Vive U4 transmitter/receiver setup. As other have said, there is extensive information available on the IEM mega thread here, and I’ll add don’t expect to get your mix right first time out of the box. It takes time to get the eq right on your IEM feed, and the balance across all instruments. But stick with it, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. Playing on a big stage, the ability to wander around taking your mix with you is revelational, and playing small gigs where you are stood on top of your amp crammed in next to the drummer work equally well and you’ll love the lack of tinnitus post-gig. 

Currently resisting the urge to splash the cash on custom moulded in-ears and a UHF-based transmitter receiver setup, surely overkill for my needs but my gear sluttery and GAS are a strong persuasive force.

Yep I went for the x-vive U4 ..I’d seen the Rodney McQ YouTube video..I like his honesty with most things ..I don’t have much patience with tech and these seem easy ..unfortunately I’ve started with the KZ’s so will see how it goes ..🤟

Edited Wednesday at 14:28 by patrikmarky

[mike257]

What I'd say is approach it with patience and allow yourself time to adjust. The benefits are massive - for your hearing health, the clarity of the mix, and how your band sounds out front without having stage absolutely blasting with noise - but it will almost certainly be "weird" at first and take some trial and error to get right, and then more time to get used to it, moreso if you don't have a dedicated sound engineer working with you who knows their way around it. Don't be immediately put off if it's not great straight away, as it's a big change and there's a lot of variables and practice to getting it right for you. 

[Dood]

Unless you’re playing massive stages, don’t waste money on a wireless set up. Hardwire. Redirect that money towards a better set of moulded IEMs, and better quality kit to improve the in-ear mix for you & everyone. Doing it properly is often expensive. Doing it on the cheap in my experience has frustrated more musicians than the issues it tried to solve. Never run with just one ear piece in and any IEM you do wear should be seated, sealed and ran as quietly as you can get by with.

 

If the band have little or no experience of professional mixing or efficient IEM set up, I’d get someone in to set stuff up, including providing yourself with an ambient system to make up for the disconnect suffered by IEMs (rightly) doing their job of attenuating the stage level.

oh and finally, sadly it’s a luxury to have on cheaper digital mixers, but if you can monitor mix in stereo (properly) it is so much easier to hear everything in the performance rather than banging all instruments in mono towards the centre of your skull. 
 

 

 

[Al Krow]

Ok so I'm going to put a counter view to @Dood's on a couple of points, based on my own pub/function gigging experience.

 

I personally don't think wireless is a waste of money and you can get decent Xvive U4s for < £200, if you want the freedom to move around. But that will very much depend on your own performance style.

What I would say, however, is that freedom to move goes hand in hand with having a wireless set up on bass, or a wireless mic if you're a singer.

 

But it does make sense to start with wired to make sure that IEMs are for you. Not everyone is a fan, particularly guitarists in my experience, whereas singers often seem to really love them! 

I can highly recommend the KZ ZARs as in ear headphones. They're < £50 from Ali Express and folk who've A/B'd them with much very more expensive kit have often said that the top end KZ's were as good.

 

For us the cost of getting a desk to enable a stereo mix is indeed an expensive luxury (we've other pressing priorities!). Sticking with mono has been fine for us and we get the same balance as the audience does, albeit a personal mono mix still allows you to bring up / keep in the background whatever elements from the band are going through the desk, if your desk has the ability to provide a tailored mix.

 

Good luck!

[Bassmonkey2510]

I have been using IEMs for a few years now and have been frustrated by them. I instigated the move to IEMs as I run the sound, but started to regret it. I have been through shure se215 which to me were lifeless compared to my KZ ZS10 pros. But the most frustrating thing was playing through either the Behringer P1 or P2 belt pack. It wasn’t being tethered that bothered me, it was the mono mix and what seemed to be load of hiss on the aux channel. 
 

Anyway, my wife bought be a Behringer P16 monitor mixer. I can now pan instruments about, grab my mix easily and also the hiss has gone. It’s like playing along to a record. AMAZING
 

Strongly recommend trying one if you are using a Behringer digital mixer. Game changer for me. 
 

Another thing, for the first time on IEMs, I didn’t miss having my amp behind me as I put me in the middle of the mix and my bass sounded huge. 

[police squad]

best thing I've ever done. I followed the advice on the bible. KZ ZS10 and KZ ZARs. I cant tell which I prefer. 

Luckily all my bands use IEM now so it's super easy

 

I won't play without them now, even on a dep gig

[JPJ]

My two’penneth on the wired/wireless point. I went wireless for my bass connection probably 15 years ago, and whilst this gives you the freedom to move around, it is just as valid in those super tight pub gigs as you are not standing all over your cable all night. Same applies with wired vs wireless IEMs. 
On the mono/stereo debate, my Behringer XR18 has 6 aux outs, which means in a five piece band only one of us could have a stereo mix without going to the expense of Ultranet linked devices like @Bassmonkey2510 which would be an expensive upgrade with yet more gear/cables etc to setup/pack away at every gig. I’ve only ever known a mono mix in my IEMs so I can’t really comment on the benefits of stereo.

[Bassmonkey2510]

The set up for ultranet isn’t too bad if you can make it work with your pedals. I have a CIOKS Sol power supply which I use to power my pedals and now also my P16, so this reduced the need for another plug at my feet and the ultranet feed is just an Ethernet cable rather than the xlr from the aux.

 

I know what you mean, JPJ it does require a bit more but having gone to stereo, the benefits are worth it IMO. Both my bands use XR18s so was a no brainer, but if you were in more than one band using different brand mixers, then a P16 would be harder to justify. 

[Franticsmurf]

11 hours ago, Bassmonkey2510 said:

Strongly recommend trying one if you are using a Behringer digital mixer. Game changer for me.

I started with a Behringer P2 hardwired and soon fell foul of all those little wires dangling around. Wireless was the obvious solution. Our band uses a Behrindger X32 and I had a personal mix from one of the aux outs for about a year and it was great. But then I discovered the P16 and, as has been said above, it is a game changer. I have mine fed with the pre-fade mix so effectively I have my own mix which I can adjust accordingly. The Ultranet (Cat5) cable is thin and runs alongside my DI and Mic cables. My wireless set up comes from the phones out of the P16. 

[Alba]

1 hour ago, Franticsmurf said:

My wireless set up comes from the phones out of the P16. 

Would be interested to know what you are using for the wireless aspect from someone who has recently started using iem and a P16. Agree that the P16 has been a game changer for me after using the P2.

[Tech21NYC]

One thing to keep in mind with IEM's is that while they can "protect" your hearing to a certain degree if used properly they can also just as easily damage your hearing by monitoring too loudly. This happens quite easily if the stage volume overwhelms the isolation of the ear piece. Even with the custom plugs I've used over the years, 26dB and 37dB of isolation seems like more than enough isolation but the low end backwash from big PA systems will make it impossible to monitor at low levels. As you turn up the volume of your IEM's due to the sealed nature of the device you create pneumatic pressure in the ear canal that can damage your hearing. 

 

The other aspect is that while playing without an amp may be appealing for some, the band is now at the total mercy of the person mixing. The band no longer plays dynamically with one another because everyone is in their own universe. 

 

 

[Franticsmurf]

23 hours ago, Alba said:

Would be interested to know what you are using for the wireless aspect from someone who has recently started using iem and a P16. Agree that the P16 has been a game changer for me after using the P2.

The P16 is on a stand to one side of me but the wireless link gives me the freedom to move about so I'm not tied to it. At some gigs, there isn't much room on stage (we're a 13 piece) and I can leave the P16 out of the way. The alternative, which I have tried, is a headphone extension cable which tends to pull on the phones and which I am expert in treading on/tripping over. 😀

[Bassmonkey2510]

What stereo wireless do you use? (I feel like I am on a never ending rabbit hole of spending money!)

 

I 3d printed a clip for my P16 to sit just below my iPad on my stand. Works well. Wish I wasn’t tethered but I can’t keep spending my lids swimming lesson money 🤫🤦‍♂️

[Franticsmurf]

14 hours ago, Bassmonkey2510 said:

What stereo wireless do you use?

I'm using a Gear4Music WPM200. It was the cheapest unit I could find when I was looking to try out IEM a few years ago and the drummer in the trio I was in was already using one. We shared the transmitter just for vocals. It does everyting I want it to and I like the sound so I haven't felt the need to upgrade. I tried a couple of different earbuds and I'm currently using a pair of KZ ZS10 Pros on the recommendation of a fellow BCer. 

[Chienmortbb]

On 01/01/2025 at 14:10, patrikmarky said:

.unfortunately I’ve started with the KZ’s so will see how it goes ..🤟

I have KZs and with the right memory foam tips, they fit me very well. I found the Comply tips the best but there are some on ebay/amazon that also work well. In saying that the Sennheiser 100s get a lot of love.

Edited Saturday at 14:30 by Chienmortbb

[BPWalls]

I also play without backline, what I use is a kz zas with spin fit tips and a backbeat on my back. Work perfectly for me

Edited Saturday at 23:31 by BPWalls