Bilbo Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I have just ordered some castors for my Eden Metro (the last set broke) because I have done a few gigs recently using my SWR/GK MB112s and I am not 100% happy with the sound. I have worked with this little set up for a good few months now on small group jazz gigs and, to be fair, its ok, it really is, but, being blunt, ok just isn't good enough. OK gets you to mediocre in a shot. I wanna sound taaaaaaaasty. So I am going to move back to the Eden and start enjoying the sound again. I hate the weight of the damn thing but its the sound that matters and, with the castors in place, its less of an issue as I only need to carry it over thresholds and up steps, mostly when there are people around who will help. Its so easy to get your head turned by the path of least resistance but, on this one, the end result justifies the effort. In my opinion, that's where the groove comes from; the sound not the notes. Compromise the sound and you compromise the groove. I want that on a t-shirt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='504776' date='Jun 3 2009, 03:57 PM']In my opinion, that's where the groove comes from; the sound not the notes. Compromise the sound and you compromise the groove. I want that on a t-shirt[/quote] I totally agree! If you can make that snappier maybe I can do a Bilbo signature Barefaced T-Shirt, to go with the planned "Louder than Lemmy" and "feed your inner afro" versions. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I've often scoffed at the importance people place on tone (given the fact that most gets lost in the mixed/not noticed by the audience), but I've come round to the idea that its important to sound good for your own benefit. I play better when I'm happy with my sound. This was drilled home by the terrible SWR Combo I keep having to hire at my rehersal studio. I play like sh*t every time I have to use. To my mind, SWR are worse than war criminals. I think carrying a bit of extra weight for a few minutes is worth it if it results in a happy gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 ...but I contradict my above statement by always gigging with the "house amp" because I'm to lazy to bring an amp to a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think we said that the MB112's be the limiting factor when you posted before buying them. Your SWR should have a good tone so I would try a "good" 112 cab. Epifani, Bergantino and Aguilar would be at the top of my list. You might even like a Markbass cab! But you should be able to improve on a Metro with a proper 112! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='504798' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:11 PM']You might even like a Markbass cab! But you should be able to improve on a Metro with a proper 112![/quote] But that's the thing - if the Metro is bilbo's "sound", no amount of cash spent will better it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='504801' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:15 PM']....But that's the thing - if the Metro is bilbo's "sound", no amount of cash spent will better it....[/quote] That might be true, but if he doesn't try then he won't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='504805' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:18 PM']That might be true, but if he doesn't try then he won't know.[/quote] You may be right, Chris. The trouble with gear is that, even if you live near a credible dealer, you never get to try until you buy. I haven't even SEEN any of the cabs you mentioned, let alone played one! I will look out for them, tho'. If I can improve on the Eden with a lighter rig (without selling the car), then that's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Tone is very important but "that's where the groove comes from; the sound not the notes"? No!! I can groove through a sh*t amp without my pedalboard. I may not enjoy it as much, and probably won't play as well, but i'll still be able to "groove". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='504829' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:41 PM']I can groove through a sh*t amp without my pedalboard. I may not enjoy it as much, and probably won't play as well, but i'll still be able to "groove".[/quote] We aren't disagreeing. You sound good, you groove. Just because you have no pedals doesn't mean you don't sound good. Just because you have a bad amp, doesn't mean you don't sound good. Bad sound = less convincing groove, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='504821' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:33 PM']You may be right, Chris. The trouble with gear is that, even if you live near a credible dealer, you never get to try until you buy. I haven't even SEEN any of the cabs you mentioned, let alone played one! I will look out for them, tho'. If I can improve on the Eden with a lighter rig (without selling the car), then that's cool.[/quote] Felixstowe isn't too far to make a quick visit to Bassmerchant. They stock Aguilar, plus Eden and SWR for the sake of comparison, not to mention Markbass... Might be worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeefChief Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='504837' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:49 PM']Felixstowe isn't too far to make a quick visit to Bassmerchant. They stock Aguilar, plus Eden and SWR for the sake of comparison, not to mention Markbass... Might be worth a try.[/quote] But stay away from the SWR obviously. Life's to short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='504836' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:48 PM']We aren't disagreeing. You sound good, you groove. Just because you have no pedals doesn't mean you don't sound good. Just because you have a bad amp, doesn't mean you don't sound good. Bad sound = less convincing groove, IMHO. [/quote] It took me a bit of thinking but I get it now. Perhaps i'm becomming stupid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The gear doesn't really matter, as long as it can go loud enough and produce enough bottom at that SPL to fit your groove. All the other twiddly tone words are pretty irrelevant. So the sound is essential but how you get it isn't. If Bilbo was playing Jaco-esque 16th note funk and samba grooves then I bet his little MB112 cab would let him groove. But if he's walking then it won't be able to produce that round fatness at higher SPL. But if he was playing in a quiet trio then it could bring enough bottom to swing nicely. Has anyone else had that thing where you step in at a jam and because the amp is really weirdly EQ'd you can only groove a certain way? Years ago I found myself playing with a rig that had the bottom maxxed out and no mid or treble, so I ended up coming at it from a messed up reggae angle (was a big dual 4x10" stack so it could do the bottom well). Another time I was playing fretless through a Burman 2x12" guitar combo which had no bottom but did an amazing job of burpy growly somewhat overdriven 16th note anger. The joy of having the right rig is that it lets you play whatever you want because it's tonal breadth at the SPL you need is greater than your stylistic envelope. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='504864' date='Jun 3 2009, 05:18 PM']Has anyone else had that thing where you step in at a jam and because the amp is really weirdly EQ'd you can only groove a certain way? Years ago I found myself playing with a rig that had the bottom maxxed out and no mid or treble, so I ended up coming at it from a messed up reggae angle (was a big dual 4x10" stack so it could do the bottom well). Another time I was playing fretless through a Burman 2x12" guitar combo which had no bottom but did an amazing job of burpy growly somewhat overdriven 16th note anger. The joy of having the right rig is that it lets you play whatever you want because it's tonal breadth at the SPL you need is greater than your stylistic envelope. Alex[/quote] Yes absolutely, running with the available backline at a punk all-nighter years ago, zero soundcheck, previous bassist was into reggae/punk Clash stuff, I liked to knock down walls (still do ), found myself playing like plop until I got the 'dub-mud' out of his amp.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongo Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) My Trace cab is heavy...but I LOVE it's sound! Markbass cabs are light...but I don't like the sound. I look at it this way; Once you've moved it and put it down...your not carrying it anymore. So...does the weight really matter? Simple right? [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='504795' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:08 PM']I play better when I'm happy with my sound.[/quote] +1 Once rehearsal I just could not stop playing ANYTHNING because I found my perfect tone...I just wanted to hear it over and over. But before that, and sometimes even now if I user other gear, I would go home unsatisfied and would play as little as poss...because my tone was dire. When you love your tone you just want to keep hearing it and playing makes you happier. Now...if I could get my practise level tone to sound the same at volume I'd be a REALLY happy bassist... Edited June 3, 2009 by Kongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='504789' date='Jun 3 2009, 04:05 PM']"Louder than Lemmy" Alex[/quote] Heading dangerously close to blasphemy there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatwound Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 This was drilled home by the terrible SWR Combo I keep having to hire at my rehersal studio. I play like sh*t every time I have to use. [i][b]To my mind, SWR are worse than war criminals[/b][/i]. nearly pissed myself when I read that. !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) I’ve been using SWR cabs for years now – they sound great! I had a SWR amp for about 15 minutes several years ago – it was bloody awful! +1 to playing better with a good sound. Also, the audience generally don’t care about your bass sound, they would just prefer to listen to a band that sounds good to one that doesn’t – a good bass tone is just part of a good overall sound (along with everything else)! Edited June 5, 2009 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 [quote name='peteb' post='506445' date='Jun 5 2009, 03:53 PM']Also, the audience generally don’t care about your bass sound, they would just prefer to listen to a band that sounds good to one that doesn’t – a good bass tone is just part of a good overall sound (along with everything else)![/quote] Oh well said, I mean it. To easy to et lost in the sound of the one instrument you play, but the rest of the band all have to do their bit. On top of which is the need for someone to be understood as the person who makes decisions for the band as a whole, and who is respected enough to be listened to. That helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcc Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) not in any way a professional, but to me the most important factor is volume. If you can't be heard over the guitarrists JCM900 your tone doesn't mater a bit (It also doesn't help if the guy at the desk turns you right down 'cause all the red lights come on when you are playing away). If you have enough headroom, then it is time to play arround with the knobs and a certain amp and cab can only do that much. I quite like my Warwick Protube with a 2x10 and 1x15 config. Nice fat sound and a lot of growl, thogh I just got a ashdown little giant just for the sake of transportability (still haven't paired it with a respective cab). Edited June 5, 2009 by mcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamapirate Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 bah, I've got an ashdown MAG-300 EVO II combo with 4x10" speakers (no, it hasn't caught fire yet ). Its as heavy as hell - me and the guitarist struggle to carry it further than 50m, but it sounds soooo nice - and loud.. yeah.. really loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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