What are my statutory rights for a guitar which becomes defective after 3 months ( it's more complicated than it seems !)?

[Beedster]

8 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

I'm sure Andertons have a warranty on products they sell, but outside that if a fault occurs with a product within six months of purchase then under the Consumer Rights Act it's deemed to have been sold in that condition, so you're entitled to ask for it to be replaced or refunded. There's a little more to it than this but that's your statutory backup.

 

But...

 

If I buy a bass, it doesn't work so I take it back, the shop plugs it in and it does work, what's the score do you think? They'd say 'The problem is with your tech (in that case amp) not the bass. You need an amp for the bass to 'work', but it's not part of the deal. I'm not saying you're wrong in principle, but Anderton's could equally say in this case the problem is with the buyer's tech and not the instrument they sold? 

[dave_bass5]

24 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Have your "music" build on an external SSD. Remote boot from that on a gig - that way you can always run an "outdated but stable" version. When it came to software and gigging... I was of the mind, if it works and is stable, dont mess with it.

Good advice, although ive been weary of using more cables than necessary when playing live. I feel safer running off the internal drive, just incase the cable gets knocked out or jolted etc.

At home I have all my DAW/Lightroom etc on SSD, but live its all self contained. 

[BigRedX]

2 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Good advice, although ive been weary of using more cables than necessary when playing live. I feel safer running off the internal drive, just incase the cable gets knocked out or jolted etc.

At home I have all my DAW/Lightroom etc on SSD, but live its all self contained. 

 

I would agree. The fewer cables and the fewer joins in cables in a gigging situation to better. I've gone one further and now have a Mac that is only used for live playback of our backing track. It lives permanently in a 3U rack case and the only connections using consumer-grade cables and connectors are made within the case. Connections to the outside world are on XLRs and Powercon. Even then 6 months of humping the case in an out of venues and rehearsal rooms caused the IEC mains cable to work loose from the audio/MIDI interface. That has now been replaced with a cable with a locking IEC connector - I never realised such a thing existed or it would have been fitted from day one.

[asingardenof]

26 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

But...

 

If I buy a bass, it doesn't work so I take it back, the shop plugs it in and it does work, what's the score do you think? They'd say 'The problem is with your tech (in that case amp) not the bass. You need an amp for the bass to 'work', but it's not part of the deal. I'm not saying you're wrong in principle, but Anderton's could equally say in this case the problem is with the buyer's tech and not the instrument they sold? 

Depends what measures you've taken to test whether it's the bass or anything you've plugged it into. If you've plugged it into an amp that wasn't on and assumed that the bass was faulty, then yes you're going to get the shop saying there's no problem because there isn't one. If you've tried it with three amps that have all been confirmed to work with other instruments, tested multiple cables, changed the batteries, etc. and it stilll doesn't work, then unless the person you return it to is a complete arse they're going to send it away for testing, or will just replace/refund there and then.

[Beedster]

8 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

Depends what measures you've taken to test whether it's the bass or anything you've plugged it into. If you've plugged it into an amp that wasn't on and assumed that the bass was faulty, then yes you're going to get the shop saying there's no problem because there isn't one. If you've tried it with three amps that have all been confirmed to work with other instruments, tested multiple cables, changed the batteries, etc. and it stilll doesn't work, then unless the person you return it to is a complete arse they're going to send it away for testing, or will just replace/refund there and then.

 

So, the shop accept the guitar as a return, plugs it into one or more phones and it works each time, where's the fault?

 

As I think has been agreed, it's all a bit of a grey area 👍

[chriswareham]

4 hours ago, Twigman said:

its like if you buy software designed to run on Windows XP but upgrade your OS to Windows10 expecting the software to still work. 

 

Which it would. Microsoft can be criticised for a lot of shoddy software development, but one thing they have been very good about is backwards compatibility. I've seen software written in the 90s that still runs on Windows 11 without modification. It's also why you may see multiple versions of C++ and .NET libraries installed on a typical Windows system.

[asingardenof]

31 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

So, the shop accept the guitar as a return, plugs it into one or more phones and it works each time, where's the fault?

 

As I think has been agreed, it's all a bit of a grey area 👍

If they've accepted it as a return and paid a refund there's no issue, they're free to sell it again as B stock.

[Beedster]

6 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

If they've accepted it as a return and paid a refund there's no issue, they're free to sell it again as B stock.

 

Fair point 👍

 

Interesting to see how this works out 

[tauzero]

4 hours ago, Twigman said:

its like if you buy software designed to run on Windows XP but upgrade your OS to Windows10 expecting the software to still work.

 

A better simile would be a piece of hardware reliant on custom Windows drivers. While the hardware is still in production, it's reasonable to expect the drivers to work with the current version of Windows. After it's discontinued, the support will be dependent on the whim of the manufacturer - eg the Tascam US428 which no longer has supported drivers.

[tauzero]

4 hours ago, edstraker123 said:

But this isn't really like that as it should run on the current version and as far as I can tell does on none Samsung android phones.

 

Do you know if it works on Pixel 8 or 9 phones? If it does, there's a possibility it's an issue with Samsung's implementation of Android although that is something that Mooer should code round if they're made aware of it.

[Burns-bass]

30 minutes ago, asingardenof said:

If they've accepted it as a return and paid a refund there's no issue, they're free to sell it again as B stock.

 

Not if its been used for 3 months. 

 

In this case, the shop would accept the guitar back as faulty and expect a refund from the manufacturer.

[12stringbassist]

As I see it, the instrument package that you have bought is completed by the essential software.
There is a functionality issue with the instrument, due to software issues. There's no separating them.

The instrument is within the warranty period and is 100% dependent on the software.
After three months, just the same as after a day, you are entitled to go back to the shop for a replacement or return from the supplier.

 

It is not the shop's fault, but your sale contract is with them.

Once the shop takes an item back, if they can't re-sell it, in a case like this, they have to take the issue up to get recompense from the manufacturer to cover their loss.
I personally feel  really sorry for the stores who get caught in the middle when something like this happens.
They should never lose out due to a manufacturer's mistake.

 

Mooer have a recent product out there, probably still being sold, that ceases to work.
That is something that Mooer needs to sort out.

[12stringbassist]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

 

So, the shop accept the guitar as a return, plugs it into one or more phones and it works each time, where's the fault?

 

As I think has been agreed, it's all a bit of a grey area 👍

The fault in that instance is the potential for someone else to buy the package and then it doesn't work for them, or ceases to work in similar circumstances.

[Kev]

2 hours ago, asingardenof said:

If they've accepted it as a return and paid a refund there's no issue, they're free to sell it again as B stock.

They won't accept it as a return though, or shouldn't at least, its way outside the return window.  If the product isn't faulty, I don't see why Andertons would consider returning and selling as B stock.

 

The issue is the item is not fit for purpose, which has to fall outside of Anderton's warranty and they can only help by assisting the customer in contacting the manufacturer for resolution, as a gesture of goodwill.

 

The key thing here seems to be the grey area; is the product "faulty".  It doesn't seem to be.

[edstraker123]

6 hours ago, Beedster said:

As I mentioned, earlier, you can bet that as long as they've sold sufficient guitars, that Mooer are also working on a fix for this. There lack of response might simply be the result of the information already being out there, are you checking their website for updates/have you registered with them for emails/notifications etc?

Yes no response to any of the forms I have submitted to them - the support form on the main and UK sites and message posted to the GTRS group admin on Facebook.

[Beedster]

6 minutes ago, Kev said:

They won't accept it as a return though, or shouldn't at least, its way outside the return window.  If the product isn't faulty, I don't see why Andertons would consider returning and selling as B stock.

 

The issue is the item is not fit for purpose, which has to fall outside of Anderton's warranty and they can only help by assisting the customer in contacting the manufacturer for resolution, as a gesture of goodwill.

 

The key thing here seems to be the grey area; is the product "faulty".  It doesn't seem to be.

 

Yep, I bought a UAD x4 from Anderton's and it had a design fault that emerged after a few months use (the power cable could not be removed from the device itself once plugged in which meant a supposedly portable device suddenly became non-portable, I had only plugged it in once and this was the first time I'd tried to unplug it). Anderton's simply sent me to UAD on this basis. The were very polite and professional but firm about doing so. 

[edstraker123]

10 minutes ago, Kev said:

The key thing here seems to be the grey area; is the product "faulty".  It doesn't seem to be.

Depends how you define the product - given the guitar can't work without the app I'd interpret the product as being both and not seperable so it is faulty

[edstraker123]

I've heard from Andertons this morning and they are liaising with Mooer who have told them the app needs a fix 'here' . I'm not sure what that means exactly but glad they now seem to be pursuing things properly.

[Beedster]

1 minute ago, edstraker123 said:

I've heard from Andertons this morning and they are liaising with Mooer who have told them the app needs a fix 'here' . I'm not sure what that means exactly but glad they now seem to be pursuing things properly.

 

I had a nightmare with hardware/software incompatibility with expensive gear a few years ago so feel your pain. I just tried to find any info I could but there's certainly not a lot. However, I suspect the fact that Thoman list your model as the highest selling of 62 digital modelling guitars it sells suggests that you're not alone and I've no doubt there will be a fix soon 👍

[Beedster]

7 minutes ago, edstraker123 said:

Depends how you define the product - given the guitar can't work without the app I'd interpret the product as being both and not seperable so it is faulty

My Dad was horrified when he bought my first electric guitar that despite spending the lofty sum of £25 he had to fork out on an amp. So horrified in fact that he didn't fork out on an amp. So I set about modding my grandparents old tube radiogram. On reflection the tone was surprisingly good  

[edstraker123]

1 minute ago, Beedster said:

old tube radiogram

My grandparents had one too - used to love noodling on it and listening to broadcasts from all over the world- I'm still a radio geek to this day.

[Beedster]

7 minutes ago, edstraker123 said:

My grandparents had one too - used to love noodling on it and listening to broadcasts from all over the world- I'm still a radio geek to this day.

 

Ah, the days when domestic/consumer audio equipment was decent quality, despite requiring only marginally less space than the family car 🤔

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, chriswareham said:

Which it would. Microsoft can be criticised for a lot of shoddy software development, but one thing they have been very good about is backwards compatibility. I've seen software written in the 90s that still runs on Windows 11 without modification. It's also why you may see multiple versions of C++ and .NET libraries installed on a typical Windows system.

 

And I wouldn't - I had to run a Windows XP machine as a separate device for several years to access a specific bit of software. There was a lot of broken things moving, most manufacturers fixed their stuff, some were no longer there to do so.

In fact all around the country are legacy computers running old systems with people hoping they don't die so that they can keep doing what they were doing.

[Beedster]

30 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

And I wouldn't - I had to run a Windows XP machine as a separate device for several years to access a specific bit of software. There was a lot of broken things moving, most manufacturers fixed their stuff, some were no longer there to do so.

In fact all around the country are legacy computers running old systems with people hoping they don't die so that they can keep doing what they were doing.

 

Yep, I'm still running, IIRC, Mountain Lion on a 2010 iMac for that very reason. Still going strong largely because I rarely connect it to the internet I suspect. 

[Woodinblack]

37 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Yep, I'm still running, IIRC, Mountain Lion on a 2010 iMac for that very reason. Still going strong largely because I rarely connect it to the internet I suspect. 

 

I also have a music iPad, which doesn't get updated, it runs the plugins I need for gigging, there is no need for an update for those, they work fine.