Orchestra bass tabs. Bit confused here...

[solo4652]

Not sure whether this post belongs here, or in "Performance".  Mods - please place it appropriately.

 

I've played in pub covers bands for years, dragging bass tabs off the web and tweaking them for almost all songs. I've just started to play with a community orchestra with a rock concert coming up in April. Bass tabs are supplied, and some broadly agree with previous tabs I've used in covers bands in EADG tuning. However, some are causing me a lot of confusion. For example, supplied tabs (labelled; "4-string bass guitar") for Baker Street, Paint it black, Can't get no satisfaction all seem to be written for Eb/Ab/Db/Gb tuning rather than standard EADG. I've not looked at all supplied tabs - this could be the case for other songs too. Is there a particular "orchestral" reason that some bass tabs are re-written for alternative tunings? It's doing my head in. Pardon my ignorance - I have absolutely no previous experience of playing in an orchestra, and I have very limited classical music knowledge. 

 

 

[BigRedX]

Will the orchestral versions include brass instruments? If so the weird keys/tunings are probably to accommodate them. Brass instruments often struggle with standard "rock" keys.

[solo4652]

Yes - brass, wind, stringed instruments all present but bass tabs, as supplied, only refer specifically to "4-string bass", if that's what you mean.

Edited Thursday at 15:34 by solo4652

[Burns-bass]

2 hours ago, solo4652 said:

Yes - brass, wind, stringed instruments all present but bass tabs, as supplied, only refer specifically to "4-string bass", if that's what you mean.

What the guys here are saying is that the orchestral scores are all written to suit instruments tuned in either Bb or Eb.

 

Basses are tuned in C.

 

I assume you’re the only bass player but there are lots of brass players (or the band leader is one).

 

Basically, changing the key makes it easier for them to play.

 

The other potential reason is that the singer(s) have requested this, but first explanation the most likely.

[diskwave]

Have to say Ive never heard of anyone using tab in an orchestra. Notation is the norm which allows you to switch keys on the fly. And as has already been  mentioned... brass and wind love playing in the flats.. not so much standard C hence why you will have to transpose your tabs, tho I dont understand tab so maybe thats not actually possible. 

[Beedster]

2 minutes ago, diskwave said:

Have to say Ive never heard of anyone using tab in an orchestra. Notation is the norm which allows you to switch keys on the fly. And as has already been  mentioned... brass and wind love playing in the flats.. not so much standard C hence why you will have to transpose your tabs, tho I dont understand tab so maybe thats not actually possible. 

Yep, you can transpose tabs, for example when playing a bass down-tuned by a tone 1 becomes 3 etc 👍

[solo4652]

 

Yes - I'm the only bassist there and yes, there are lots of brass instruments.

 

Some of the supplied tabs are in EADG - My Sharona, You really got me, for example. Supplied tabs for other songs e.g. Baker street, Rolling Stones medley appear to be in Eb/Ab/Db/Gb. So, I have to transpose those tabs back to EADG, or have a second bass at hand pre-tuned to Eb, or faff about changing tuning on my main bass between songs - none of which appeal to me at all.

[jrixn1]

2 hours ago, solo4652 said:

all seem to be written for Eb/Ab/Db/Gb tuning

 

Do you mean that when playing along to the original recordings at home, playing the tabs as written, you have to downtune your bass to EbAbDbGb to make it sound correct?  In that case... you probably don't want to downtune.  Keep it in EADG.  All the other orchestra instruments will also be sounding up one semitone from the recording - so it will sound wrong practising with YouTube but correct when you are with the orchestra.

[fretmeister]

I spent 12 years doing this sort of thing.

 

Can you post some images of the music? It would be very odd for a bassist in this situation to be expected to swap instruments or retune.

 

When there's a lot of transposing instruments the bass and guitar hardly ever get to play rock tunes in the original keys. There's a chance you'll never play an open E ever again!

 

Also - get yourself Stu Clayton's beginner sight reading book and get stuck in. Most community orchestras never play anything above Grade 3 standard anyway and it's usually quick to get up to speed with proper notation.

 

You'll only need 10 mins per day sight reading practice and in a year you'll be playing Grade 3 stuff easily.

[solo4652]

Examples of supplied tabs

 

This is page 1 of Rolling Stones medley. I think it relates to Paint it black, but i'm not 100% sure...

 

Edited Thursday at 18:07 by solo4652

[solo4652]

[Beedster]

Is it not suggesting that Bb is the first fret on the A string or am I missing something? 

[simonlittle]

I’ve never seen that on a gig. It does suggest that for some unknown reason they’ll be playing some of tunes (Baker Street here) down a semitone from the written parts but that begs the question what are the rest of the orchestra going to do?? Because I can guarantee they won’t all be able to transpose and/or detune. And presumably their parts won’t be in different keys to yours. 
Having said that I’ve also never seen a bass part for an orchestral arrangement with tab on it too. 
Intrigued to see how this pans out. I’m sure it’ll become clear very quickly once everyone starts playing together. If it were me and there were several parts with the Eb/Ab/Db/Gb note lurking in the pad I probably would take a spare bass detuned just in case…

Edited Thursday at 20:37 by simonlittle

[simonlittle]

Ps. The “4 string bass guitar” label is probably the standard labelling for whatever scoring program they’ve used that will allow it to play back and sound like a regular bass whilst they’re arranging. 

[OliverBlackman]

59 minutes ago, Beedster said:

Is it not suggesting that Bb is the first fret on the A string or am I missing something? 

All looks to be standard tuning to me.

 

just follow the tab and you’ll be fine.

Edited Thursday at 19:08 by OliverBlackman

[fretmeister]

The handwritten tuning notes appear to be wrong as said. A string 1st fret is Bflat and that is what the notation shows so if you lowered your bass tuning you’d be playing an A and it would be wrong.

 

These are perfect lines to practice notation reading with.

 

I’ve been there, the only person in the room who couldn’t read proper music. I’m so glad I decided to get stuck in with reading. It opens up so many opportunities. 

[solo4652]

1 hour ago, OliverBlackman said:

All looks to be standard tuning to me.

 

just follow the tab and you’ll be fine.

You see, this is what's confusing me. Here's a tab for Baker Street in EADG: https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/gerry-rafferty/baker-street-bass-1672337 which agrees with this cover on YouTube in EADG.

 

Sounds OK to me against the original. But it doesn't agree with the tab I've been sent which I think would sound correct if the bass was tuned Eb. Sorry - I'm showing my ignorance here.

[Beedster]

I get the impression that the tab you posted above is correct for Eflat tuning on bass but that the notation doesn’t agree with it

[fretmeister]

12 hours ago, solo4652 said:

You see, this is what's confusing me. Here's a tab for Baker Street in EADG: https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/gerry-rafferty/baker-street-bass-1672337 which agrees with this cover on YouTube in EADG.

 

Sounds OK to me against the original. But it doesn't agree with the tab I've been sent which I think would sound correct if the bass was tuned Eb. Sorry - I'm showing my ignorance here.

The one you are playing might be in a different key.

 

That’s very common for this sort of thing.

 

Blues Brothers Gimme Some Lovin is originally in E major. But one of the most popular community orchestra arrangements is in F Major to make it easier for the transposing instruments.

 

Basically for this sort of thing you’ll have to get used to the version you are playing to be quite different from the original recording.

Edited Friday at 09:23 by fretmeister
spelling!

[simonlittle]

7 minutes ago, solo4652 said:

Sounds OK to me against the original. But it doesn't agree with the tab I've been sent which I think would sound correct if the bass was tuned Eb. Sorry - I'm showing my ignorance here.

Agree with @fretmeister

Looks like the part you’ve been given is assuming you’ve detuned the bass a semitone. Seems completely illogical to me to supply a written part that’s not in the key it’s going to be played in by the rest of the band but it looks like that’s what’s happened. Also agree that these are great lines to practice reading the notation. 

[SimonK]

...post deleted as your second tab posted above is indeed weird - looks like someone was trying to be helpful and in doing so has just caused confusion!

 

I'd get back to the arranger, tell them you would rather not bring two instruments or have to retune, and ask for them to reprint the bass music written for standard tuning. Hopefully they have the file on their computer and it should just be a case of changing the key signature and then reprinting.

Edited Thursday at 21:19 by SimonK

[OliverBlackman]

1 hour ago, solo4652 said:

You see, this is what's confusing me. Here's a tab for Baker Street in EADG: https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/gerry-rafferty/baker-street-bass-1672337 which agrees with this cover on YouTube in EADG.

 

Sounds OK to me against the original. But it doesn't agree with the tab I've been sent which I think would sound correct if the bass was tuned Eb. Sorry - I'm showing my ignorance here.

If I was given the music you had, I wouldn’t detune at all. Could be that the arrangement you’re playing is in a different key to the original. Or the arranger has royally cocked up…

[fretmeister]

9 hours ago, simonlittle said:

Agree with @fretmeister

Looks like the part you’ve been given is assuming you’ve detuned the bass a semitone. Seems completely illogical to me to supply a written part that’s not in the key it’s going to be played in by the rest of the band but it looks like that’s what’s happened. Also agree that these are great lines to practice reading the notation. 

It seems to me that whoever the last bassist was had a problem with the nature of playing in flat keys when a low E flat wasn’t available. I’ve seen that before. So they drop half a tone to be able to play it lower instead of using a 5 string or just playing it within the normal range of the instrument.

 

I’d definitely ask the band leader for fresh / corrected sheets and then just play it as written.

Edited Friday at 06:29 by fretmeister
Stupid spell check

[solo4652]

I've messaged the arranger and asked for clarification. Watch this space...

[itu]

Maybe the band has decided to play the song half a step lower, and the previous bassist has had issues with transposing. He has just lowered the tuning, and still could have used the common positions on the fretboard. To me this looks like a lazy way to transpose.