Defret a favourite neck or buy a fretless neck?

[Grooverjr]

I fancy giving fretless a go, but I don't want to buy yet another bass. I have a Squier Jazz that I don't use and am keeping for sentimental reasons with a decent maple neck in it that I find very comfortable. The question is - get that neck defretted or buy a fretless neck and stick it on there.....

 

Considerations:

- cost (which is cheaper? I wouldn't want to spend much as it's the scratching of an itch rather than a necessity

- you don't see many maple fretless necks, is there a reason? Maybe that more bitey maple sound doesn't suit fretless?

 

The benefit of the considerable wisdom of the BC Hive mind shall be my guide (oh, fool that I am 😁)

[lksmks792]

I'd imagine having it defretted is almost certainly cheaper than getting a new fretless neck, since a decent one would set you back a few hundred pounds. You could look out for second hand parts of course. I'm not sure about the price of a defret, but that should be easy to find out.

I've been looking for maple fretless necks as well in the past. Sire have been making fl basses with them (only lined though, I had one which was nice), but they're the only major brand afaik. Fender only did them in the 70s I think.

[Grooverjr]

1 minute ago, lksmks792 said:

I'd imagine having it defretted is almost certainly cheaper than getting a new fretless neck, since a decent one would set you back a few hundred pounds. You could look out for second hand parts of course. I'm not sure about the price of a defret, but that should be easy to find out.

I've been looking for maple fretless necks as well in the past. Sire have been making fl basses with them (only lined though, I had one which was nice), but they're the only major brand afaik. Fender only did them in the 70s I think.

Thanks. Lined is fine (probably better) but I was thinking the same about a defret. I know I like the feel of this neck as well, and I know my way around it so transferring should be easier as well. 

[Burns-bass]

A pro defret will cost about £200. I’d buy a Fretless VM series Squier instead.

[neepheid]

I still think you should buy a new bass which is fretless from the get-go.  That way it's a lot easier to get rid of if your fretless adventure doesn't work out, and you won't have compromised an instrument you like.

[prowla]

De-fretting it might alter it from what you liked about playing it.

I've got a Mighty Mite fretless neck and it is mighty fine.

[franzbassist]

Just now, prowla said:

De-fretting it might alter it from what you liked about playing it.

 

This is very true.

[Cato]

3 hours ago, Grooverjr said:

- you don't see many maple fretless necks, is there a reason? Maybe that more bitey maple sound doesn't suit fretless?

 

I think it's more convention than anything else, maple fretless boards are standard on Sire fretlesses at all their price points.

 

That said, there may be an issue if it's a maple fretboard on the Squier that you're thinking of defretting The deep poly coating (can be up to 2mm) over the wood makes it difficult to defret and refinish cleanly.

 

When I looked into doing exactly this a few years ago the guy who I spoke to about it (who's a reasonably well known luthier) basically said he wouldn't do it for that reason.

 

I ended up leaving the Squier alone and getting a Sire V7 fretless instead.

Edited 18 hours ago by Cato

[Grooverjr]

Just now, Cato said:

 

I think it's more convention than anything else, maple fretless boards are standard on Sire fretlesses at all their price points.

 

That said, there may be an issue if it's a maple fretboard on the Squier that you're thinking of defretting then the deep poly coating over the wood makes it difficult to defret and refinish cleanly.

 

When I looked into doing exactly this a few years ago the guy who I spoke to about it (who's also a reasonable well known luthier) basically said he wouldn't do it for that reason.

 

I ended up leaving the Squier alone and getting a Sire V7 fretless instead.

Thanks, that's what I suspected. It's a P neck anyway (don't get on with J necks, really) so I might hang on for a cheapie second hand fretless. 

 

[Happy Jack]

42 minutes ago, prowla said:

De-fretting it might alter it from what you liked about playing it.

 

This ^

 

And de-fretting an existing neck is pretty much irreversible. Do this and find that you don't like it and you're stuffed ... you no longer have the bass you liked so much, you can't convert it back again, and you've destroyed the resale value.

 

+1 for buying an after-market fretless neck, then source the hardware you need (tuners, string-tree, etc.) pre-owned either here on Basschat or through eBay. No real need to buy new if you're strapped for cash.

 

As a matter of personal taste I've never really 'got' lined fretlesses. They don't look fretless unless you get up close and you know what you're looking for, so you get no Wow! factor, and the only person who can't see the lines is you, the player. It all seems a bit silly. 

 

I've always preferred to have fret-end markers inserted instead. You look down at the edge of the fretboard/fingerboard and you see where the frets would be if there were any frets. I find that system to be well inside my comfort zone.

 

[spencer.b]

You'll be spending nearly as much as the bass is worth to  devalue it if you get it defrettted , I'd get a fretless sire on here and if you don't like it you can get your money back 

[Beedster]

To add my extra (small) thoughts to what I think are several pretty conclusive opinions above, here's some more reasons why you shouldn't defret

 

1. Fretted necks are forgiving on the wood. Wood moves over time and wood wears over time. Poor alignment or uneven surface of a board is generally masked by frets but brutally exposed on a fretless. After the defret you may find that you have to have the board smoothed, which is expensive anyway but more so with a maple neck as you will also have to have it refinished

2. Maple fretless necks are lush - I have three - but they wear very quickly and need to be looked after, for example they do not like heavy handed players. They have low resale value/desirability by comparison with rosewood/ebanol/ebony in part for that reason, which is probably why I've been able to pick up three quite cheaply

3. You may have to have your neck refinished anyway depending on how much damage is done to the existing finish during the defret. That is expensive

4. You will almost certainly need to cut a new nut for your neck once its fretless (I have never found an odd the shelf nut that I was able to install unmodified on a fretless neck). This is not a big job of course but the costs are all adding up

5. If as you say you're keeping the bass for sentimental reasons, turning into an instrument that might be crap or that you might not like very much or might not be able to play - after all you say you fancy giving fretless a go - seems a bit counterintuitive 👍 

[Beedster]

2 minutes ago, Beedster said:

To add my extra (small) thoughts to what I think are several pretty conclusive opinions above, here's some more reasons why you shouldn't defret

 

1. Fretted necks are forgiving on the wood. Wood moves over time and wood wears over time. Poor alignment or uneven surface of a board is generally masked by frets but brutally exposed on a fretless. After the defret you may find that you have to have the board smoothed, which is expensive anyway but more so with a maple neck as you will also have to have it refinished

2. Maple fretless necks are lush - I have three - but they wear very quickly and need to be looked after, for example they do not like heavy handed players. They have low resale value/desirability by comparison with rosewood/ebanol/ebony in part for that reason, which is probably why I've been able to pick up three quite cheaply

3. You may have to have your neck refinished anyway depending on how much damage is done to the existing finish during the defret. That is expensive

4. You will almost certainly need to cut a new nut for your neck once its fretless (I have never found an odd the shelf nut that I was able to install unmodified on a fretless neck). This is not a big job of course but the costs are all adding up

5. If as you say you're keeping the bass for sentimental reasons, turning into an instrument that might be crap or that you might not like very much or might not be able to play - after all you say you fancy giving fretless a go - seems a bit counterintuitive 👍 

 

....but apart form that I'd say go for it 😆

[itu]

You can ask a luthier to build you a similar fretless neck. Can be a really attractive option, also pricewise.

[Grooverjr]

Thanks everyone for some good solid advice. I love BC!

 

Special shout to @Beedster for the detail and excellent reasons not to do something daft and @Happy Jack for the lines advice. The favourite neck is safe! 

 

 I'll keep an eye on the S/H market and see what comes up and go for somethign cheap. If I like it I can then go down the 'get a neck made' route.

[Downunderwonder]

4 hours ago, Grooverjr said:

Thanks. Lined is fine (probably better) but I was thinking the same about a defret. I know I like the feel of this neck as well, and I know my way around it so transferring should be easier as well. 

Knowing your way around the fretted neck is going to do squat for your fretless playing. It could very well frustrate you.

 

Lines are but a guide. Where you finger notes between frets with great precision you finger 'on' the lines.

 

Good advice taken.

[Skybone]

What about a cheap fretless from Harley Benton / Gear4Music / Vintage?

[JoeEvans]

If you buy a decent secondhand fretless and don't enjoy playing it you can sell it for what you paid for it, so the experience will be more or less free. What's not to like about that?

[Dan Dare]

6 hours ago, Cato said:

I think it's more convention than anything else, maple fretless boards are standard on Sire fretlesses at all their price points.

 

That said, there may be an issue if it's a maple fretboard on the Squier that you're thinking of defretting The deep poly coating (can be up to 2mm) over the wood makes it difficult to defret and refinish cleanly.

 

When I looked into doing exactly this a few years ago the guy who I spoke to about it (who's a reasonably well known luthier) basically said he wouldn't do it for that reason.

 

I ended up leaving the Squier alone and getting a Sire V7 fretless instead.

 

This is good advice. Even if you can find someone to do it, you will probably devalue the instrument or make it harder to sell. Most players want fretteds.

 

You could look into getting a replacement bolt on neck. You could switch over the tuners to keep cost down. That way you can keep the original and return it to the instrument should you ever wish to sell it.

[GuyR]

I have had two jazz basses professionally defretted.

One rosewood board in the early 80s, which had the frets filled with fillets of a darker wood. It was fine for 30 years and I subsequently had frets reinstated by Bass Gallery. It’s still fine. Board did need a little levelling.

I had a modified 62 Jazz bass which had in the past received a new incorrect maple board. I had that replaced with an unlined Brazilian rosewood board which looked lovely. I never connected with it but was not out of pocket when sold on.

I recently acquired a lovely 70 maple board Jazz bass, which I’m very pleased indeed to have had the opportunity to buy. Maybe the attack is a little more “snappy” than rosewood. Maybe. I don’t think the fingerboard choice is too high on the list of factors that affect the tone.
 

What would I do in your position with the benefit of hindsight?

Sell the Squier for the best price you can and buy a used Sire, Tokai maybe a Westone or similar unfashionable fretless bass.

In modification, You’ll spend significant money on your current bass and reduce its value at the same time.

 

In addition, you will create an opportunity to go bass-shopping. Never a bad thing.

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by GuyR