Cab upgrade advice needed, please

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

I'm currently using a Tech 21 VT Bass 500 head into a TC Electronic k-212 cab. I play mostly doom metal, and I'm in a 90s/2000s rock cover band. 

 

The Amp is fantastic and rated at 300w at 8ohm and 500w at 4 ohm. 

 

I love the head, but the cab is just not *quite* enough for me. I bought it blind when it was cheap but well reviewed, and I've grown to dislike it. 

It's not hugely heavy, but the shape is unwieldy, and it struggles with lower tunings even with the mids pushed (I don't play below low A if I can help it).  I struggle for volume at times when there's insufficient PA support.

 

I need advice on a replacement cab. I can't find a matching k 212, and I don't really like the aesthetic anymore.  I'm thinking that I want a brand that won't go obsolete the second I buy it (thanks TC), and can be expanded when I have extra £££. 

 

I need it to be able to handle low notes without farting at volume, and probably 2x12. Storing and moving a 4x10 is impractical unless it's not much different to 2x12 specs. 

 

I will have £800-900 at most to spare on an 8 ohm cab (probably but open to advice) or a lower cost pair of cabs. 

 

I looked at GK neo IV, Markbass energy etc. The used market in my neck of the woods it woeful, an I'm hours away from civilization. 

 

Thanks in advance for reading my nonsense.  

Edited January 22 by ProjeKtWEREWOLF

[bigthumb]

First thing that comes to mind are the Markbass cabs. I'd have thought they would be ideal being within your price range, new and delivered. There's never a long wait for a top second hand cab to be listed here but it's probably going to have to be posted due to your location, unless you like driving! 

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

22 minutes ago, bigthumb said:

First thing that comes to mind are the Markbass cabs. I'd have thought they would be ideal being within your price range, new and delivered. There's never a long wait for a top second hand cab to be listed here but it's probably going to have to be posted due to your location, unless you like driving! 

I despise driving haha. 

 

 

The new 2x12 energy cabs look good, but the combined cost for 2 cabs might be a smidge too much.  That said, I'm running 300w into a less than stellar cab now, and I can't find a matching cab for *that*. 

 

I've seen a pair of neo Ashdown 2x10 cabs for less than £800....

[bigthumb]

What about a pair of 15”s? 

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

16 hours ago, bigthumb said:

What about a pair of 15”s? 

Nothing against that idea. I used to run 15" Peavey cabs back in the 

90s.   I had a massive SWR head at that time. It was all ridiculously heavy. 

Edited January 22 by ProjeKtWEREWOLF
Clarification

[Chienmortbb]

Interesting, on the Tech21 site

 

"AMPLIFIERS

Built around the warm analog brain of our SansAmp technology, our amplifiers offer yoga-guru flexibility with easy-tweaking layouts. We also built them as tough and good-looking as Lemmy. Whichever you choose, these amps will quake the bedrock live and in the studio.

Due to exorbitant price increases of materials combined with supply chain and transportation issues, we have suspended production of all amplifiers.
We will, however, continue to service and provide technical support as we always have."

 

 

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

12 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Interesting, on the Tech21 site

 

"AMPLIFIERS

Built around the warm analog brain of our SansAmp technology, our amplifiers offer yoga-guru flexibility with easy-tweaking layouts. We also built them as tough and good-looking as Lemmy. Whichever you choose, these amps will quake the bedrock live and in the studio.

Due to exorbitant price increases of materials combined with supply chain and transportation issues, we have suspended production of all amplifiers.
We will, however, continue to service and provide technical support as we always have."

 

 

Why "interesting "? 

 

It's a gorgeous little amp, which I've had a few years.  Sounds fantastic.  The *only* problem is that the DI volume isn't independent of the speaker output volume. 

 

When it finally dies I don't know what I'll go to. 

[Chienmortbb]

I checked the Tech21 site for your mp spec and could not find it, that is why it was interesting.

 

On the cab front, some of the new boutique 12" cabs outperform most 2x12s. Barefaced may or may not be out of reach, try looking at the LFSys Monza. If you really want two cabs, buy one excellent one, then add another when funds permit. I can vouch for the LFSys cabs, and there are many that can praise the Barefaced cabs.

Edited January 24 by Chienmortbb
changed any to many

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

5 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I checked the Tech21 site for your mp spec and could not find it, that is why it was interesting.

 

On the cab front, some of the new boutique 12" cabs outperform most 2x12s. Barefaced may or may not be out of reach, try looking at the LFSys Monza. If you really want two cabs, buy one excellent one, then add another when funds permit. I can vouch for the LFSys cabs, and there are any that can praise the Barefaced cabs.

 

 

 

I'm thinking of doing this...a good cab, then another good cab.  I'm leaning towards GK neo IV. My first bass teacher had a GK amp, and I've loved them since. A Mesa Subway 115 or 212 would be nice too. 

This would max out my budget. 

 

A Barefaced would be stretching it, but it *would* be a one cab solution at 4ohms and would cover an inevitable amount upgrade. 

 

https://www.tech21nyc.com/archive/vtbass-500/

[Obrienp]

There is a Barefaced Big Twin for sale for £800 in the listings. I have no connection with the seller but that seems like a fantastic deal, if you want something that is not going to fart out on the lows at volume. If you don’t need the highs, you can turn the compression driver down. I suggest it is all the cabinet anyone is going to need but might be eclipsed by my next suggestion.

 

On the modular front, LFSys has been mentioned and I can second that, being the owner of a Monza (10”). The Monaco (12”) must be even more bullet proof. Rated at 600 watts AES @ 8 ohms it’s going to cope with all but the highest output amps at full chat. Don’t take my word for it though, search for the threads about LFSys on here and/or drop @stevie a DM to discuss your needs.

[ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

2 hours ago, Obrienp said:

There is a Barefaced Big Twin for sale for £800 in the listings.

 

 

I am much too far away to even consider that, sadly. 

[Chienmortbb]

On 22/01/2025 at 20:19, ProjeKtWEREWOLF said:

A Barefaced would be stretching it, but it *would* be a one cab solution at 4ohms and would cover an inevitable amount upgrade. 

I am not criticising Barefaced, their 4 ohm cabs have two drivers, but you will get very little extra from your amp by going to 4 ohms, unless you do it with two drivers.  Taking into account the extra power losses, a single 4ohm driver will only give you about 1dB extra. That is just noticeable so not really worth the trouble as you will not be able to double up on cabinets. 

 

A good single 12" woofer cabinet would be a better bet in that adding a second Identical cab would, stacked vertically, give a real noticeable difference.

[warwickhunt]

2 x 210 stacked vertically.  Take 1 to rehearsals or small gigs; 400w 8ohm or 800w 4 ohm.  

 

[Obrienp]

There is a recent thread discussing the effect of doubling the number of drivers and loudness. I can’t now find it but you may have better luck searching. Various BC members who know what they are talking about have chimed in. A lot of it went over my head but what i took out of it was:  doubling the number of drivers, ie, 2 x 12, instead of 1 x 12, will give you a 3 Db increase, everything else being equal. In terms of watts, 10 times is twice as loud (all else being equal) ie, 100 watts is twice as loud as 10 watts, so to be twice as loud as 100 watts, you need to go to 1,000! However, there are a lot of variables involved and our perception of loudness depends a lot on the frequencies involved. 
 

The long and short of it seemed to be, as previously stated, your amp running at 4 ohms instead of 8 ohms won’t in itself sound that much louder (even though it normally roughly doubles the wattage). However, if you got your amp to run at 4 ohms by doubling the drivers (of the same size, excursion, etc) that will sound appreciably louder because of the extra displacement.
 

I am talking rules of thumb here, not absolutes. If any knowledgeable people are reading this, please correct me if what I have said above is wrong, or misleading. 
 

Anyway, where I was leading to, is that I agree with what @Chienmortbb about a single good 8 ohm cab versus a single 4 ohm. The beauty of the single 8 ohm cab is that, when you can afford it, getting another will give your 3 db boost and still be within the capabilities of your amp (4 ohms). The next trick is getting the right cab, which leads us back to LFSys, Barefaced, etc. All cabs are not equal.

 

There are others related discussions like headroom and perceived increases in depth of tone when you double the drivers. There seems to be quite a lot of folklore involved in these discussions, like the perceived difference in loudness between valve watts and solid state. I haven’t seen any convincing arguments either way on that. I am guessing, if you get a 3 db boost from doubling your drivers, that boosts the lower frequencies to a level where we notice them more. Our hearing being biased in favour of mids and highs.

 

Sorry gone off beam a bit 🥴.

[Chienmortbb]

One of the parameters of a loudspeaker is power compression. As a resistance/impedance gets hotter, the resistance/impedance increases and so the power reduces. Beyma AFAIK were the last company that published power compression curves and from memory, the power compression on one model was 1db loss at 1/3 power, 2dB at 2/3 power and over 3dB at full power. So a 4 ohm version of the same driver would lose be approx 1.5dB of the extra power available from the amp. Remember, most drivers convert well over 90% of the power they are supplied to heat.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24 by Chienmortbb
Adding to heat at the end.

[David Morison]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

Remember, most drivers convert well over 90% of the power they are supplied.

 

To Heat. You forgot the 2 most important words... 😉

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, David Morison said:

 

To Heat. You forgot the 2 most important words... 😉

Correct.