PMT Online trade in rip off

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

Nobody is forcing you to accept their offer. A low offer is usually a sign they don't really want something and hope you'll dispose of it elsewhere. If you want the convenience of not having to advertise it, show it to potential buyers and so on, you're going to have to pay for the privilege.

 

Years ago, I got a bit hot under the collar about an offer, which on reflection I shouldn't have.

 

Not a musical instrument - a motorcycle. Me, vaguely attracted to some other bright shiny thing in the shop: "How much would you give me for this?" Them: "We're not really interested in that" Me: "How much?" Them: "£1000" At which I took umbrage (scrap value of said bike was about £1500), but on reflection I was really ignoring what they kept telling me, that they didn't want it. It did take me many, many months to get to that point of reflection though.

 

I think (going back an awfully long way to the OP) there is an awful lot to consider in terms of a "straight trade". The shop has bought in an item with a certain level of mark-up. There's VAT considerations on this as well. It becomes a lot more complex in terms of profit and loss than "you're selling A for £x, here's B that I'd like £x for". There's a few on here that have actually worked in shops who could give a more informed view than me.

[BassTractor]

In response to what @tauzero said, from my own line of work some decades ago:

- the factory builds a fibreglass kayak at a certain cost and adds 14% to reach a selling price.
- importer adds 17% to the in-price.
- shop adds 35%, hoping the costs remain at 25% so the income is 10% (or just 7.4% of the selling price, which equals to 5.9% of the price-including-VAT)

Other numbers for other (normally cheaper) products, other lines of trade, etc. etc.
 

Edited Thursday at 09:43 by BassTractor

[Beedster]

My over-riding sentiment on this - without wishing to further criticise the OP - is that there are too few physical shops that stock decent basses as it is without us lot making their lives and their business any harder than it already is without real justification 👍

 

I've criticised, among others Bass Direct, Bass Gallery, and Barefaced in the past, usually not because they were unprofessional or in error, but because for whatever reason I was pissed off about something they did or didn't do. It's easily done on a forum like this, and we should all remember that these businesses are part of the UK bass community, not prey to it 👍 

[Rosie C]

16 hours ago, casapete said:

Moral being - shop around, don’t accept a reduced offer and if you can be arsed first try a private sale! 

 

Good advice. I was offered £900 for a VW Fox by one of the big car-buying companies, but their attitude bugged me because it was in nice condition for its age and they were determined to run it down. I listed it on FB marketplace at £1500, sold within 12 hours and my inbox exploded with around 70 people enquiring. So likely I could have sold it for a chunk more. 

[dmccombe7]

On 22/01/2025 at 06:55, edstraker123 said:

You're not wrong - I need to stop buying stuff I don't need.  I've put the guitar on ebay. I was always under the impression that for a trade in you would get about half the value roughly depending upon desirability and condition . A third is ridiculous for a big name brand as new. The bass listing on the PMT website was a bit rubbish - poor photo and just great condition as a description - maybe in this particular shop they just can't be bothered. I can feel a Trustpilot review coming on....

I've sold quite a lot of items using the FB for sale forum without too many issues. Always ask for cash on collection to be on the safe side tho.

Dave

[casapete]

4 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I've sold quite a lot of items using the FB for sale forum without too many issues. Always ask for cash on collection to be on the safe side tho.

Dave

Me too Dave. Had a few no-shows but no out and out nutters. I’ve always been careful

to protect my details, preferring meet ups or delivery in person etc. Cash on collection

is always good - why don’t I trust bank transfer with people I’ve never met? Oh yeah,

I’m an old gimmer. 🤣

[Obrienp]

The OP doesn’t surprise me, unfortunately. One of the staff at PMT Norwich told me that the max they can offer on a PX is a third of what they sell the item for. I’m not sure how that works for items that have been out of production for a long time but it is what PMT managers work to. The same staff member told me to always go for a private sale to get close to what the item is really worth.

[asingardenof]

19 hours ago, casapete said:

Slightly OT so forgive me but sort of relevant - a couple of years ago my daughter was swapping her car and

needed to trade her Honda Civic in. After not getting much joy she contacted a couple of the car buying firms

regularly advertised everywhere.  One was a better quote, so we made an appointment, which the rep from the

firm was late for. Looked around it for ages, took it for a few miles drive and then offered her some £500 less

than his original offer ( despite the car being mint ). When asked why he just said that’s what his boss had 

decided / change in market prices ( in 2 days!) and thus wasted a lot of time for all of us.

We then went to ‘ We buy any car’ who were then exact opposite - their price was adhered to, quick decision

and payment within a few days. 
Moral being - shop around, don’t accept a reduced offer and if you can be arsed first try a private sale! 

Similar to my WBAC experience, where the computer in their office offered considerably lower than the website had, but the salesman rang his boss and upped the offer to something a lot closer to what I was expecting.

 

With the benefit of hindsight I should have kept that car though - a pale blue metallic Honda Jazz might not have been as cool as the BMW I kept hold of, but it would have given me considerably less trouble than the BMW, and certainly a lot less trouble than the car that replaced the BMW!

[edstraker123]

14 hours ago, Misdee said:

I think the O.P has been a bit naive

I'll admit my trustpilot comment was an overreaction. Anybody who knows me on here( or ebay)  knows I buy and sell guitars and basses all of the time( to me it's as enjoyable as playing them) and have done for many years, so I do know how it works. I appreciate that the shops are in business to make money and knew they wouldn't offer me anything like the new price of the guitar. All I wanted was a fair trade in -something that works for both parties. As suggested in one of the posts, I did get in touch with Richtone who offered £1535 cash as a straight sale or higher depending upon the px deal. Sound Affects had offered me £1600 cash and £1800 px. both realistic offers. PMT's offer wasn't - if they don't want the guitar or think it would be difficult to sell that's fine - just say that. Given I was just asking for a straight trade for the Spector they would probably have made more money on the Rickenbacker and presumably would have had more potential customers for a guitar than a bass - the Spector has been up for quite some time and the new Rickenbacker price is considerably higher than the new Spector price in their own store which you would expect to reflect in the used prices. PMT also say they give 10% extra for PX deals. Of course shops are free to offer what they like, just as I was free to accept or reject the offer, but I see no harm in flagging the fact that IMHO their offer was ridiculous given that they are meant to be a reputable music chain like the 2 other companies who offered reasonable trade in values and therefore my expectations of them were higher. It would be interesting to see what a different PMT shop would offer for the guitar, as I did also get the impression that this particular branch really couldn't be bothered.

My initial request about the Spector was through ebay as it looked like it was in the Liverpool branch of PMT so I wanted more details about the condition - they've just emailed me to say it is 'Very Good' unlike the shop itself who told me it was 'Immaculate' having given it an inspection that must have lasted all of 20 seconds - these things really matter to me. Might have been a bullet dodged in the end.

[Kev]

14 minutes ago, edstraker123 said:

I'll admit my trustpilot comment was an overreaction. Anybody who knows me on here( or ebay)  knows I buy and sell guitars and basses all of the time( to me it's as enjoyable as playing them) and have done for many years, so I do know how it works. I appreciate that the shops are in business to make money and knew they wouldn't offer me anything like the new price of the guitar. All I wanted was a fair trade in -something that works for both parties. As suggested in one of the posts, I did get in touch with Richtone who offered £1535 cash as a straight sale or higher depending upon the px deal. Sound Affects had offered me £1600 cash and £1800 px. both realistic offers. PMT's offer wasn't - if they don't want the guitar or think it would be difficult to sell that's fine - just say that. Given I was just asking for a straight trade for the Spector they would probably have made more money on the Rickenbacker and presumably would have had more potential customers for a guitar than a bass - the Spector has been up for quite some time and the new Rickenbacker price is considerably higher than the new Spector price in their own store which you would expect to reflect in the used prices. PMT also say they give 10% extra for PX deals. Of course shops are free to offer what they like, just as I was free to accept or reject the offer, but I see no harm in flagging the fact that IMHO their offer was ridiculous given that they are meant to be a reputable music chain like the 2 other companies who offered reasonable trade in values and therefore my expectations of them were higher. It would be interesting to see what a different PMT shop would offer for the guitar, as I did also get the impression that this particular branch really couldn't be bothered.

My initial request about the Spector was through ebay as it looked like it was in the Liverpool branch of PMT so I wanted more details about the condition - they've just emailed me to say it is 'Very Good' unlike the shop itself who told me it was 'Immaculate' having given it an inspection that must have lasted all of 20 seconds - these things really matter to me. Might have been a bullet dodged in the end.

 

Where is Sound Affects?  That's hell of an offer really from a shop, especially the cash price.  Their margin on that after booking it in, marketing it etc would be pretty small, unless they're an expensive shop.

[Terry M.]

Sound Affects are based in Ormskirk. 

[edstraker123]

10 minutes ago, Kev said:

Where is Sound Affects

They are a local shop and expensive ! I think they said they would have put it up for £2600 ! ( they always seem to sell my trade ins for high prices quickly too- maybe as they are always immaculate)

https://www.soundaffects.com/

 

Just wondering whether to go and look at the RB4003 they have for sale after work ....

 

[prowla]

14 minutes ago, Kev said:

 

Where is Sound Affects?  That's hell of an offer really from a shop, especially the cash price.  Their margin on that after booking it in, marketing it etc would be pretty small, unless they're an expensive shop.

 

Just now, Terry M. said:

Sound Affects are based in Ormskirk. 

I've bought things online from Sound Affects; never been there though.

[dave_bass5]

Surely its only a rip off if you get ripped off?

[edstraker123]

11 minutes ago, prowla said:

I've bought things online from Sound Affects; never been there though.

It's a great shop - mostly high end guitars rather than basses and the staff are really nice. Generally quiet so you can have a good play on stuff.

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, edstraker123 said:

It's a great shop 

Agreed, I bought a used bass from this forum that had been bought from Sound Affects what I understand was a considerable time before it came to me. A problem came up and they fixed it for me FOC. Very good people 👍

[Terry M.]

1 hour ago, edstraker123 said:

It's a great shop - mostly high end guitars rather than basses and the staff are really nice. Generally quiet so you can have a good play on stuff.

I nearly bought a used MK1 Japanese Yamaha TRB5 off them online but I was too slow 🐌 

[knirirr]

In my experience PMT in Oxford have always been reasonable when it comes to trade in. They will answer emails and tell me if they want an item or not, and if they do what they would be willing to pay.

Of course, that amount would be less than I'd like, but it has the advantage that I do get something, and quickly. If I list on forums or Ebay then stuff never shifts.

I suppose it's good that it's almost impossible to get rid of something when I've bought it, otherwise I'd be tempted to buy rather a lot more...

 

[edstraker123]

9 hours ago, Beedster said:

I've criticised, among others Bass Direct, Bass Gallery, and Barefaced in the past, usually not because they were unprofessional or in error, but because for whatever reason I was pissed off about something they did or didn't do. It's easily done on a forum like this, and we should all remember that these businesses are part of the UK bass community, not prey to it

The businesses also need to remember without our custom they won't survive . This isn't a one way street and its not too much to expect to be treated fairly.

[neepheid]

Surely the answer lies somewhere in between these entrenched and polarised viewpoints.

[edstraker123]

Anyway there is a nice ending to the story - Sound Affects good to their word gave me £1800 trade in against this Ricky- they'll make a profit, I got a bass I want and everyone went home happy ...

Edited Thursday at 19:06 by edstraker123