P bass sound without being a P bass ?

[tauzero]

On 03/02/2025 at 21:44, kwmlondon said:

Is that an AI page translation or are the marketing team stoned?

 

A friend of mine announced on FB that he'd be putting a set into his bass. I read the description and said "that load of pretentious bollocks has put me off ever using those in any of my basses."

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Peaty said:

Thanks All, I have picked up one of these locally, it does indeed sound very P like and is comfortable to play, mine is less pristine that the one in the photo but plenty good enough for me.

If one came up near me I would snap it up. 

[-asdfgh2-]

On 06/02/2025 at 10:29, Peaty said:

Thanks All, I have picked up one of these locally, it does indeed sound very P like and is comfortable to play, mine is less pristine that the one in the photo but plenty good enough for me.

It's interesting how opinions change - thirty years ago you had to pay people to take a Westone Thunder (or a 70s Fender) off your hands

[-asdfgh2-]

On 05/02/2025 at 08:35, Chienmortbb said:

All made by Matsumoku. 

 

Indeed. They are virtually the same instruments with different logos in some instances. Just one is "hip" because John Taylor used an Aria and one isn't.

[Paddy777]

US G&L L1000 is my current P-Bass, as someone else said I think pickup placement is more important than type as I get great P tones from this (could even get an L2000 tribute and just run the front pickup if you want to do it on a budget - sounds much the same, front pickup is in the same place and looks nothing like a P-bass!)

[Stub Mandrel]

10 hours ago, -asdfgh2- said:

It's interesting how opinions change - thirty years ago you had to pay people to take a Westone Thunder (or a 70s Fender) off your hands

 

In the 80s a Westone was what you saved for if you had no chance of getting a Fender.

[kwmlondon]

6 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

In the 80s a Westone was what you saved for if you had no chance of getting a Fender.

The upside is there are absolutely fantastic instruments out these at better prices than collectible ones. I have a messed about with late 80s made in Japan strat that’s a fab guitar and not particularly valuable. 

[ped]

8 hours ago, Paddy777 said:

US G&L L1000 is my current P-Bass, as someone else said I think pickup placement is more important than type as I get great P tones from this (could even get an L2000 tribute and just run the front pickup if you want to do it on a budget - sounds much the same, front pickup is in the same place and looks nothing like a P-bass!)

Good call. I forget the details but doesn’t the MFD have one extra hot coil in OMG mode? 
 

Any dual coil  humbucking pickup with one hotter coil will do a great P sound. That’s why I got a Gemini Degenerate Tbird pickup in my Mustang. 

[neepheid]

2 hours ago, ped said:

Good call. I forget the details but doesn’t the MFD have one extra hot coil in OMG mode? 
 

Any dual coil  humbucking pickup with one hotter coil will do a great P sound. That’s why I got a Gemini Degenerate Tbird pickup in my Mustang. 

 

Nope, OMG mode is achieved by putting a capacitor across only one coil, putting them slightly out of balance and providing a perceived bass boost - because brains are soft, squidgy, suggestible things. No extra hot anything, just a little bit of Leo magic.

[ped]

16 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Nope, OMG mode is achieved by putting a capacitor across only one coil, putting them slightly out of balance and providing a perceived bass boost - because brains are soft, squidgy, suggestible things. No extra hot anything, just a little bit of Leo magic.

 

OK well two coils behaving slightly differently but next to each other gives a similar effect lending to a P bass sound more than a normal humbucker. My L2000 did a very nice P in that mode (I forget what everything else was set but I think a bass cut in combination with the OMG?)

[Bassassin]

21 hours ago, -asdfgh2- said:

Indeed. They are virtually the same instruments with different logos in some instances. Just one is "hip" because John Taylor used an Aria and one isn't.

 

To be anal, that's not really the case. Aria SB/SB-R/SB-Elite basses & Westone through-necks used entirely different pickups, hardware & electronics. The 'classic' SB series had near-parallel necks with wide nuts & narrow bridge spacing, so would feel very different to any Westone.

 

Westone started life as Matsumoku's house-brand so it's reasonable to think they were made there - although there are some Korean Westones, which are presumably post '87. Aria on the other hand was predominantly made by Matsumoku, although the fact a lot of copy-era Aria stuff is identifiably from Fujigen & Kasuga probably says it's highly likely other factories were involved in manufacture of the original designs too.

 

There's still a tendency for people to assume that every late 70s/early 80s through-neck bass or guitar was made by Matsumoku, but the reality is every Japanese & Korean manufacturer - as well as Italian, Brazilian & elsewhere - were making Alembic-inspired instruments. I could reel off a big list of defunct factories no-one's heard of - but you're bored already, so I'll spare you that.

[neepheid]

4 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

To be anal

 

Not like you...

 

(says he, getting all ackshually about misconceptions about how G&L OMG mode works...)

Edited February 8 by neepheid

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, Bassassin said:

 

To be anal, that's not really the case. Aria SB/SB-R/SB-Elite basses & Westone through-necks used entirely different pickups, hardware & electronics. The 'classic' SB series had near-parallel necks with wide nuts & narrow bridge spacing, so would feel very different to any Westone.

 

Westone started life as Matsumoku's house-brand so it's reasonable to think they were made there - although there are some Korean Westones, which are presumably post '87. Aria on the other hand was predominantly made by Matsumoku, although the fact a lot of copy-era Aria stuff is identifiably from Fujigen & Kasuga probably says it's highly likely other factories were involved in manufacture of the original designs too.

 

There's still a tendency for people to assume that every late 70s/early 80s through-neck bass or guitar was made by Matsumoku, but the reality is every Japanese & Korean manufacturer - as well as Italian, Brazilian & elsewhere - were making Alembic-inspired instruments. I could reel off a big list of defunct factories no-one's heard of - but you're bored already, so I'll spare you that.

 

I assume that it's reasonable to assume that Westones with a Matsumoku stamp on the neck plate are legir?

[-asdfgh2-]

1 hour ago, Bassassin said:

 

To be anal, that's not really the case.

 

I said "in some instances" and "virtually". I'd agree that there are many models that are not similar, apart from perhaps headstocks shape, but there are some that are really quite close. 

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/EWi7fmjB7zqZzLDi9

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156645723240?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lzb7hzhfthw&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=FrF8PzSQTWO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

The main functional difference is the location of the jack socket, plus one has the pickup poles flipped (easily changed). One looks much better, though, assuming you like white pickup covers. Granted, the Thunders with exposed pole Magnatone style pickups seem to be relatively rare, but I don't think there's much difference other that pole visibility to the enclosed type, and there are a few variants of those.

 

Whilst there's no exact analogue in the Westone catalogue for the Arias most favoured in the 1980s, the cachet of appearances on Top of the Pops seems to have attached to the whole brand, including models that didn't feature on TV often or at all. The layer Thunder II or III can probably get you close to the John Taylor sound. I had a III with Magnatones which seemed to do the job reasonably well and looked suitably 80s. However, there was a fault somewhere so some switch combinations didn't work so I sold it. 

 

I had a West one Thunder IA fretless, circa 86-87 build, sold it, and more recently picked up one of similar vintage fretted, both with Magnatones. In the end I decided that the pickup in roughly the MM position wasn't getting me the sound I wanted. I just sold my MM SUB for the same reason. The Thunder III I could probably fix now, and I wish I'd kept it.

[-asdfgh2-]

14 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

In the 80s a Westone was what you saved for if you had no chance of getting a Fender.

Or a Tokai. I have more than one of those. I'm intending to be buried with the fretless.

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, Bassassin said:

 

To be anal, that's not really the case. Aria SB/SB-R/SB-Elite basses & Westone through-necks used entirely different pickups, hardware & electronics. The 'classic' SB series had near-parallel necks with wide nuts & narrow bridge spacing, so would feel very different to any Westone.

 

Westone started life as Matsumoku's house-brand so it's reasonable to think they were made there - although there are some Korean Westones, which are presumably post '87. Aria on the other hand was predominantly made by Matsumoku, although the fact a lot of copy-era Aria stuff is identifiably from Fujigen & Kasuga probably says it's highly likely other factories were involved in manufacture of the original designs too.

 

There's still a tendency for people to assume that every late 70s/early 80s through-neck bass or guitar was made by Matsumoku, but the reality is every Japanese & Korean manufacturer - as well as Italian, Brazilian & elsewhere - were making Alembic-inspired instruments. I could reel off a big list of defunct factories no-one's heard of - but you're bored already, so I'll spare you that.

There are tell-tale signs if you know what you are looking for.

[Owen]

On 22/01/2025 at 21:17, Lozz196 said:

bassists voting with their ears only.

It will never catch on. 

[bremen]

2 hours ago, -asdfgh2- said:

Or a Tokai. I have more than one of those. I'm intending to be buried with the fretless.

I think Tokai made my Fender badged precision neck. It's a corker.

[Bassassin]

2 hours ago, -asdfgh2- said:

 

I said "in some instances" and "virtually". I'd agree that there are many models that are not similar, apart from perhaps headstocks shape, but there are some that are really quite close. 

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/EWi7fmjB7zqZzLDi9

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156645723240?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=lzb7hzhfthw&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=FrF8PzSQTWO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

The main functional difference is the location of the jack socket, plus one has the pickup poles flipped (easily changed). One looks much better, though, assuming you like white pickup covers. Granted, the Thunders with exposed pole Magnatone style pickups seem to be relatively rare, but I don't think there's much difference other that pole visibility to the enclosed type, and there are a few variants of those.

 

Yes, that was what you said (while apparently discussing SBs & Thunder II/IIIs) but here we are, comparing two midrange, bolt-neck Matsumoku basses, a Westone Spectrum & Aria Cardinal which, when you look, aren't really "virtually the same instruments". You've chosen a curious comparison because apart from wildly different aesthetics, the hardware is different, pickup position is different and the poles on the Aria MB3 pickup & those on the Westone's Magnabass II are reversed. Not sure how easy that would be to change, really - if you turn them around they'll still be the same. They probably did use the same Gotoh tuners, though.

 

It is fair to say - apart from the weird thing on that particular Westone - that Matsumoku basses from this era did often have variations on the same tapered 2-a-side headstock design - Aria, Westone, Westbury, Vantage all used this - and often had similar symmetrical body shapes. I'd contend this was more a fashion thing than a manufacturer trait, both design features crop up on instruments from various factories - but that doesn't stop some people from really wanting their Washburn, or even Italian-made Eko BX7 to be a Matsumoku!

 

3 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I assume that it's reasonable to assume that Westones with a Matsumoku stamp on the neck plate are legir?

 

I expect so! Looks like the brand continued for a while after the demise of Matsumoku in '87 (as did other connected names, like Vantage) - I've seen MIK Thunders and they're identifiably different to the MIJ ones.

 

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

There are tell-tale signs if you know what you are looking for.

 

I'm sure there are - but of what? On the whole I tend to know what I'm looking at, if not for.  

 

[BassAgent]

The OP has bought a Westone apparently, which is a great option so congrats there

I would however like to add a different taste to the discussion. I tested one of these for the Dutch magazine "de Bassist" and really liked the looks but didn't buy one because it sounded like a Precision and, to paraphrase the French  soldiers in Monty Python & The Holy Grail, I've already got one, you see?