New Fender Standard Series Basses!

[neepheid]

Also, and sorry for the tangent, but I'm waiting for an £82 bass to arrive and I have set myself a "giggable bass for £150" challenge.

[Geek99]

We demand pictures documenting this quest (by proxy, in our case)

[NancyJohnson]

14 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Unfortunately you are too right. It's the charging more money for the same things that I really disagree with also.

 

Take Fender.  Their instruments, be it bass or guitar, are all fundamentally based on body designs and innards that are over 60 years old; end of the day, if you want a Fender bass it's going to be a Jazz, Precision or maybe a Jaguar. 

 

The whole reinvention element of their business model is to offer different colours, different woods, vintage-styled pickups, mixing up the guts of the basses (offering P/J pickups, active EQ) and so on, in the belief that it's something new, when it isn't.

 

I'm sure many people are of the belief that buying into Fender is like buying into Jaguar or Ferrari; this belief that the mass produced CNC'd instruments produced in Mexico or the far-east somehow share the lineage, legacy and pride of those built in the 50s and early 60s, but they aren't those instruments.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I don't detest Fender, I've owned several of their basses, but I would never buy another one, new or used.  There's way more gear out there that's better, more versatile than anything they make.

[tegs07]

9 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

Agreed but it’s not three times better, and I object to paying three times as much. The average punter is going to look at these basses, vaguely recognise the shape, maybe read the headstock and take a another slurp of beer 

 

above 700 it boils down to “I want” no one else than a fellow bass player is even going to notice and that is where vanity starts 

A big problem with this statement is £700 ten years ago bought a lot of Fender Mexican made bass. Now the prices have increased with inflation.

Wages in the urban areas of Indonesia particularly for skilled labour are steadily rising. I read somewhere that minimum wages will increase in Indonesia by 6.5% this year. Raw materials and transport costs also remain elevated.

 

£250 for a musical instrument including all taxes, distribution etc is incredible value. I don’t think £700 is particularly expensive either. I think we have just got used to things being extraordinarily cheap in the last few decades.

[lemmywinks]

7 minutes ago, Crusoe said:

Is a Rolex going to be better at telling the time than the £70 smart watch I wear? My watch might actually be better at it, as it synchronises with GPS satellites etc. A £250 bass that has been properly set up will play better than a ten grand one with a badly cut nut and strings set so high you could drive a bus under them (yes I know that instruments that expensive shouldn't be badly set u, but it happens).

 

 

A cheap digital Casio watch from Argos will be better at telling the time than any Rolex as will a half decent quartz watch. That's why watches with movements were rebranded as fashion/status accessories after quartz became a thing.

[neepheid]

3 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

We demand pictures documenting this quest (by proxy, in our case)

 

I will, if the effer ever arrives - I've had it on back order since September last year!

[lemmywinks]

5 minutes ago, neepheid said:

Also, and sorry for the tangent, but I'm waiting for an £82 bass to arrive and I have set myself a "giggable bass for £150" challenge.

 

That's not a challenge, do sub £50!

[neepheid]

1 minute ago, lemmywinks said:

 

 

A cheap digital Casio watch from Argos will be better at telling the time than any Rolex as will a half decent quartz watch. That's why watches with movements were rebranded as fashion/status accessories after quartz became a thing.

 

People who have the money and time to get into watch fancy don't really care what time it is...

[neepheid]

1 minute ago, lemmywinks said:

 

That's not a challenge, do sub £50!

 

I should have been more clear - "Brand new giggable bass for £150" - second hand market off the table.

[Terry M.]

21 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

There's usually a perfectly good alternative a lot cheaper that does MOST of what the expensive thing does!

What is it the cheaper one can't do in your opinion if it's set up really well and plays nicely?

[Terry M.]

27 minutes ago, Crusoe said:

Genuine question, when was the last time Gibson brought out a new style of guitar? Fender have brought out the Meteora recently and the Acoustasonic (albeit it's based on their traditional electric guitar shapes).

The Meteroa looks Jaguar-ish to me. Also as far as specs are concerned the only new (to Fender) feature I think I spotted was the switchable mid frequency. Great to see the return of the S-1 switch though. 

[NancyJohnson]

22 minutes ago, Crusoe said:

Genuine question, when was the last time Gibson brought out a new style of guitar? Fender have brought out the Meteora recently and the Acoustasonic (albeit it's based on their traditional electric guitar shapes).

 

Gibson are as guilty as Fender.  

 

They bought out the Theodore, which is allegedly based around some unproduced designs from the 1950s (I bought one of the original run, it's lovely), but I'd struggle to name anything new beyond that.

 

 

 

 

[Cato]

Gibson went through a period of innovation fairly recently that included the infamous robo tuners and the Firebird X 'smart guitar'.

 

It wasn't exactly a roaring success for them.

 

I suspect it will be a long time before they stray from the tried and tested path again.

[Crusoe]

11 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

The Meteroa looks Jaguar-ish to me. Also as far as specs are concerned the only new (to Fender) feature I think I spotted was the switchable mid frequency. Great to see the return of the S-1 switch though. 

Hmm, good point.

[neepheid]

IMO the Meteora is compromised by the regular old Fender headstock.  They didn't have to reinvent the wheel, I reckon the Starcaster headstock would have complemented the body shape well...

 

[lemmywinks]

2 minutes ago, Cato said:

Gibson went through a period of innovation fairly recently that included the infamous robo tuners and the Firebird X 'smart guitar'.

 

It wasn't exactly a roaring success for them.

 

I suspect it will be a long time before they stray from the tried and tested path again.

 

I can remember them bringing out the new EB series of basses as well which actually looked alright, then GAK had to sell them off at £400 after they'd already been reduced significantly by Andertons to clear stock.

 

There's no point in them coming up with new designs because that's already catered for elsewhere, people buy Gibsons for Gibson-y type stuff. Shudder to think how much money they wasted buying (and subsequently ruining) Tobias.

[kwmlondon]

42 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

Agreed but it’s not three times better, and I object to paying three times as much. The average punter is going to look at these basses, vaguely recognise the shape, maybe read the headstock and take a another slurp of beer 

 

above 700 it boils down to “I want” no one else than a fellow bass player is even going to notice and that is where vanity starts 

I don't know if it's vanity so much really as just liking nice things. If you can have a really, really decent bass for £1,000 or one that's not much better, objectively, but has been custom-made for you by a builder you like at a cost of £4,000 is that vanity? I'd say no more than paying for antique furniture instead of going to Ikea. Some people will do it for the brag-factor, but lots of people are just really into art deco and are happy to pay for the privilege.

 

One area though where it can really be worth paying more just for the brand is if you think you may not keep the instrument, even second hand. It can be really hard to move a bass on with a lesser-known name on the headstock because people may just not be aware of how good it is, but you can always shift a Fender if you ask the going rate - they are a known quantity. 

[Crusoe]

9 minutes ago, neepheid said:

IMO the Meteora is compromised by the regular old Fender headstock.  They didn't have to reinvent the wheel, I reckon the Starcaster headstock would have complemented the body shape well...

 

I like that. Make it and I won't buy it (because I'm skint). Maybe move the G tuner somewhere else.

[Geek99]

18 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

I don't know if it's vanity so much really as just liking nice things. If you can have a really, really decent bass for £1,000 or one that's not much better, objectively, but has been custom-made for you by a builder you like at a cost of £4,000 is that vanity? I'd say no more than paying for antique furniture instead of going to Ikea. Some people will do it for the brag-factor, but lots of people are just really into art deco and are happy to pay for the privilege.

 

One area though where it can really be worth paying more just for the brand is if you think you may not keep the instrument, even second hand. It can be really hard to move a bass on with a lesser-known name on the headstock because people may just not be aware of how good it is, but you can always shift a Fender if you ask the going rate - they are a known quantity. 

I’d find an Indonesian fender easier to shift in a hurry than an Indonesian squier, so the extra outlay might pay off 

[Terry M.]

9 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

I’d find an Indonesian fender easier to shift in a hurry than an Indonesian squier, so the extra outlay might pay off 

Only if you don't keep the Squier.

[Terry M.]

43 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

I can remember them bringing out the new EB series of basses as well which actually looked alright, then GAK had to sell them off at £400 after they'd already been reduced significantly by Andertons to clear stock.

PMT currently have a used Gibson EB5 on their website that originally was priced at £1,800.00!! It's been ignored for so long they recently reduced it to £1,399.00!! It's still sitting there. They may be in for a rude awakening when the time comes.  As per your post they weren't crazy popular when new.

Edited February 14 by Terry M.

[lemmywinks]

22 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

PMT currently have a used Gibson EB5 on their website that originally was priced at £1,800.00!! It's been ignored for so long they recently reduced it to £1,399.00!! It's still sitting there. They may be in for a rude awakening when the time comes.  As per your post they weren't crazy popular when new.

 

The one they have is the previous style with the scratchplate, regular headstock and a less attractive (IMO) body shape, probably more appealing to Gibson bass fans due to being more traditional. The ones sold off cheap were more like a Gibson Victory without the scratchplate, only Gibson know why they chose to call them an EB when that's already been used for three different Gibson bass shapes.

 

 

[Terry M.]

13 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

 

The one they have is the previous style with the scratchplate, regular headstock and a less attractive (IMO) body shape, probably more appealing to Gibson bass fans due to being more traditional. The ones sold off cheap were more like a Gibson Victory without the scratchplate, only Gibson know why they chose to call them an EB when that's already been used for three different Gibson bass shapes.

 

 

Ah ok fair enough. I wasn't aware of that 👍

[80Hz]

Mature technology in terms of CNC production, generally reliable and easily replaceable components, means that producing "a good tool for the job" is now a solved problem.

 

As already mentioned upthread, over a certain price we're all mostly paying for aesthetics. Which is why these days an instrument has to look good as well as be "technically" good for me to give it a second look. An instrument is a design object, not just a means to an end.

[Muzz]

2 hours ago, kwmlondon said:

I don't know if it's vanity so much really as just liking nice things. If you can have a really, really decent bass for £1,000 or one that's not much better, objectively, but has been custom-made for you by a builder you like at a cost of £4,000 is that vanity?

Thing is, you can get a custom made bass built for you by a luthier that IS objectively better for half that £4k, which these days is in the territory of a lot of higher-end US mass-manufactured stuff...