Relationship Between Driver Frequency Range and Claimed Range of Speaker Cabinet

[BigRedX]

If you like the sound of your current cab but it's not cutting it when it approaches the output limit, then just buy another one the same. 

 

You may find that additional placement options means that the second cab also ends up nearer your ears.

[bremen]

Yes I think what Mr RedX said.

The difference will be predictable, and the prediction I'd like to make is: you will be happy. 

 

"twice the rating of the amp" advice isn't as good as "if it sounds bad to you, change something", as the quoted speaker power rating is usually thermal. If you like a lot of lows, the excursion limit is generally reached long before thermal.

 

[Obrienp]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

If you like the sound of your current cab but it's not cutting it when it approaches the output limit, then just buy another one the same. 

 

You may find that additional placement options means that the second cab also ends up nearer your ears.

I think you are right but funds are an issue, plus I might need to buy another amp to cope with the combined impedance of 2 x Two10S. Both at 4ohms = 2, which my current amps can’t do; both at 12 = 8 ohms (according to BF) which reduces the output of my amp to 250 watts, so either way I might need a new amp.

 

My other options is to get a second LFSys Monza, which would give me a 4 ohm rig capable of handling 1,200 watts AES. This would be a cheaper option and I could keep my current amp. I would need to play a lot with EQ to get the same tone out of the FRFR cabs. Also I’m not sure that two stacked cabs is quite the same as two drivers in one enclosure with a hybrid resonator and a LPF on one driver. It would be a cheaper option though. Obviously not as cheap as my plan to replace the drivers in the Two10 but that appears to be a non starter.

[bremen]

I see the dilemma.

 

You say you like a lot of low end. Maybe get a powered sub to take some of the work from the cab that you otherwise like the sound of? A 3015LF in a simple 70 litre ported box can move a lot of trouser, and power amps are cheap.

[bremen]

9 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

. Both at 4ohms = 2, which my current amps can’t do; both at 12 = 8 ohms (according to BF) which reduces the output of my amp to 250 watts, so either way I might need a new amp.

Sorry, missed this bit.

 

If you do go down the road of getting a second bf, set them both to 16ohm. Your amp will be able to deliver more than half the power into 8 than it can into 4, so the difference will be less than 3dB. And you'll be able to turn it up further before the speakers complain. I think you mentioned earlier that you don't use the full capacity of the amp anyway?

[Obrienp]

5 minutes ago, bremen said:

I see the dilemma.

 

You say you like a lot of low end. Maybe get a powered sub to take some of the work from the cab that you otherwise like the sound of? A 3015LF in a simple 70 litre ported box can move a lot of trouser, and power amps are cheap.

Interesting suggestion which I will investigate. Weight might be an issue for me as I am getting on but worth looking into. 👍

[bremen]

38 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

Interesting suggestion which I will investigate. Weight might be an issue for me as I am getting on but worth looking into. 👍

 

I have a 3015lf in a 70 litre cab incorporating a 400w class d amp and lpf. It's an easy one person lift (even for me, clapped out old fart with an interesting collection of spinal issues)

If you DIY you can choose dimensions so that it sits under the bf, bringing it nearer your ears.

 

I could help with cab design and do any electronics you need. See what Phil and Bill have to say about the idea.

[bremen]

Ps this thread is a lot funnier* if you read "bf" as "boyfriend", as most www users would.

 

*individual GSOHs may vary. Termsandconditionsapply

 

[Obrienp]

6 minutes ago, bremen said:

 

I have a 3015lf in a 70 litre cab incorporating a 400w class d amp and lpf. It's an easy one person lift (even for me, clapped out old fart with an interesting collection of spinal issues)

If you DIY you can choose dimensions so that it sits under the bf, bringing it nearer your ears.

 

I could help with cab design and do any electronics you need. See what Phil and Bill have to say about the idea.

Thank you for the offer. Generally I would be up for a self build but I have a DIY duty list as long as my arm at the moment. It might be something to consider for the winter, if I haven’t sorted my cab requirements by then. At the moment I don’t want to jeopardise domestic bliss by “getting distracted” 😏.

[Phil Starr]

There is so much to untangle here

 

Firstly dont change your speakers. It will completely change the sound of the cab, reduceit's value while it will cost a fair bit to buy the new drive units. It would be far cheaper to change your cabs entirely. That's without the re-engineering of the cab you would need to match it to the new drivers.

 

Secondly don't believe the advertising. There aren't many 10" speakers that can handle more than 200W at all frequencies and there are usually frequencies in the sub 100Hz range where power handling may be reduced to a few 10's of watts. This leads to the old rule of thumb about cabs handling twice the amp power. That dates back to the 60's and early 70's when speaker coils were wound on paper and stuck down with very ordinary adhesives. The coils heat up like an old fashioned light bulb and the paper literally caught fire. I saw a lot of smoke in 1970 coming out of cabs. In those days rating a cab by thermal limits made sense. Times change and modern speakers are wound on fireproof materials and it's pretty hard to physically set them alight any more giving speakers a thermal rating makes no sense but it is the standard and nobody wants to see their 200W speaker de-rated to 50W  

 

If you want to use an amp rated above the thermal rating of the speakers then you need to manage the frequencies below 100Hz. That means using a high pass filter (HPF) and shaping rather than just boosing your bass response. Every 3db of bass boost increases the power to your speaker by doubling the power. If you turn the boost up by 12db (usually the maximum) that's 16 times the power at the very lowest frequencies wher all the damage is done.

 

You talk about it not being loud enough, is that for you or the audience. You may be blasting out the audience and almost forcing the guitarists to turn up but still not hearing yourself

[Obrienp]

1 hour ago, Phil Starr said:

You talk about it not being loud enough, is that for you or the audience. You may be blasting out the audience and almost forcing the guitarists to turn up but still not hearing yourself

Thank you for the explanation. I think that definitely puts the nail in the coffin of my idea to upgrade the drivers.

 

it’s not that the Two10 isn’t loud enough, it’s that it starts to break up earlier than I would like. This happens particularly in the blues/rock band but also in another covers band that I dep for occasionally. What I would like is a clean, deep tone at medium volume, which happens to be around 12 o’clock Gain and Master on my two class D heads (500 watts at 4ohms), normally with no bass boost (the Two10 provides the vintage voicing out of the box).

 

I’m coming round to the view that I would be better getting another LFSys Monza: the two would give me ample headroom and I can get to my preferred tone through EQ and amp voicing. I just wish I could turn the horn down a touch on the highs but I can get the same effect with a LPF. A plus is that adding the second Monza would give me a 3 db boost, over the single. It would also raise the output nearer my ears, making it even more audible. I’ve been told this several times by various people but I was trying to explore cheaper options.