Multi effects recommendations

[sikpete]

@warwickhunt This could well be where i end up. Im currently very happy with my head and cab sound so any digital solution will have to at least equal the quality of tone. Adding a zoom or equivalent to the my chain could be the final outcome. Ive enjoyed reading the different experiences you guys have had on similar journeys.   

[sikpete]

Sorry for delay on up date but I finally got to try out the quad cortex yesterday evening and while not perfect I was very impressed. We attempted to cover Kasabian "club foot", A/B'ing the original track to see how close we could get to the sound. On the fly we download a SVT CL heritage and big muff capture. I always ran my CL with the volume on full and used the gain as the volume control, this didnt return the sound I expected but the guitarists then gave a 10 minute ted talk on how the captures work..... bit of fiddling and I found a sound I was happy with. At first applying the big muff capture to the chain returned a pretty weak sound but playing with the eq we managed to produce a thunderously full rumble that had a clarity to it that Im not sure I would of achieved with physical units. Running this through the power section of the genzler got the barefaced six10 moving a ridiculous amount of air, loved it.

 

Cons: When running the cortex through the power section I lost the heads eq which made dialing in a sound more fiddly, I think if I go this route Ill sell my genzler and replace it with a power amp (they use the seymour duncan powerstage 170 and its eq is very useful, the 170watt is much lower than im used to but seemed to produce plenty of volume) @Kev how do you power yours?. I wasnt madly impressed with the selection of bass head captures at first glance but we didnt spend too long looking and seems plenty of pay options. Then there is the price, even if getting lucky second hand I can see this route costing £1500+ by the time Ive included power section, new board and potentially plugins. 

 

Im thinking of purchasing a boss gt-1000, running it like a pre amp in my chain and seeing what results it returns, then try it through the power section as I now have the cortex experience as a point of reference.

[Kev]

When you say power, do you mean how do I power the unit, or what power amp do I connect it to?  

[matybigfro]

@sikpete I'm intrigued as to why you're particularly want a multi-effect over looking at individual pedals? 

 

If you're wanting to be able to match as close to possible a range of recorded/player/band tones this may be the best bet but be prepared for likely a significant amount of investment in time programming the units to get the most desired sounds.

 

I do think one area where many modelers/multi's are weakest and have had the least development in is bass specific overdrive, distortion and fuzz algorithms. I think it tends to be a little over looked by most companies again not that they sound bad but often the OD, distortion and fuzz replications have had more tunning for guitars and often the guitar and bass amplifiers are where most development is spent on the digital side.

 

You then have the dilemma of looking at how to make sure you have the sound you want on stage and through front of house (while not impossible it is another later of complexity). You've clocked this already with the dilemma of do you run the quad into the input of your genzler or the FX return. If you are using the amp modelling/simulation functionality these pedals then ideally you should run into a fx return or dedicated flat amp (like the GS sumo or bass amp where the pre is designed to be flat and uncoloured with a very basic eq) or a appropriate power amp (crown tend to become of the favoured). Then there's choices of CAB, do you keep your barefaced which will add additional colour to the tone coming out of the QC or other or go for something more transparent like the big baby or big twin. 

 

It can be done but it is a significant commitment and a possibility that you might not be as happy with your base tone as your current setup provides.

 

If your current head/cab is something that you feel happy with and enjoy and you only need some occasional colours/flavours for getting in the ball park of a bands sound for the odd song I think I'd suggest sticking with individual pedals. While you might be able to get very good) incredible sounds out of a QC based rig you might never quiet the in the room sound you are used too currently (if that is currently perfect in your ears)

 

If you don't fancy tap dancing and money/budget is not an issue you can invest in a switcher either as simple as a Harley Benton or Mooer or at the more expensive and extensive systems from Boss or gig rig along which would replicate the programmability/technical complexity of many multi's that enable complex sound changes with a single switch. The benefit of these is it allows you to swap in and out individual pedals to your tone hunting delight. There are so many stomp boxes out there that the tones in your head will be achievable with patentience and investment.

 

Personally I use a Boss GT-1000 core and my reasoning was I wanted to be able to get as close to the multi channel/band processing I use when recording when playing live. It's not perfect but it gets pretty close although requires allot of time getting there. My band did a covers set for NYE and it got me close enough to a range of sounds without too much effort. That was after a few years of using it to get tuned into it's controls and interface and how it works. The Gt1k interface is very different to most other modelers/multi's as it has no touch screen or colour display but actually I think once you learn it its probably the easiest and quickest to use on the fly. It's also got the least accurate amp models, not that it sounds bad at all but it's Amps are not even attempting to be able to sound exactly like 100's etc other exact amps from history and more like highly usable great sounding approximations of a few classic amp types or tones. So if you were wanting to sound exactly like such and such  a record or amp it might not be there one whereas QC will certainly get very very close to many of those with the right time and gear and ear.

 

Even then no multi effect is as easy to tweak in the moment and provide as much certainty of what sound will come out when you pluck that string as a few stomp boxes into your favourite amp. And if your amp setup is making you 100% happy you might be better off looking for couple of individual stomp boxes that will get you 'close enough' to ya 'clubfoot' or other individual song tones.

 

Just my thoughts from what you had shared and my own experience. I'm sure whatever decisions you make you'll have plenty of fun, do keep us updated on your progress.

[gafbass02]

I use the helix and love it having moved from an excellent zoom b9.1. I hated it for guitar though, so went back to zoom for guitar and stick to helix for bass. 

[sikpete]

On 07/02/2025 at 17:27, Kev said:

When you say power, do you mean how do I power the unit, or what power amp do I connect it to?  

I meant as getting powered signal to a cab or are you direct to PA/ inears setup. Interestingly the 2 guitarists use 2 different after market options to power on their QC, the modded pedal route being my preferred of the 2.

[Kev]

12 minutes ago, sikpete said:

I meant as getting powered signal to a cab or are you direct to PA/ inears setup. Interestingly the 2 guitarists use 2 different after market options to power on their QC, the modded pedal route being my preferred of the 2.

Oh in that case yes I go straight to FoH/IEMs, i've never used a power amp with it.  I think perhaps once or twice i've plugged in to the effects loop return of a practice room amp, but no i'm strictly one of those modern w*nkers  

[sikpete]

@matybigfro Now that was an interesting read and the sort of internal considerations Ive been having with myself. Buying a selection of stomps seems the easy option but assumed modern multi effects units would of come far enough to replace these, taking up less pedal board real estate, a one price point solution with downloadable options over time. Surmising your insights I may not find this is to be the case but i think its the next test im going to have a go at. I nearly purchased a core on Saturday but then watched some videos on the gx10 which tickled my fancy, in the end opting to buy neither but that may change today. The limited bass amp choices on the core that you mention was actually the reason I didnt pull the trigger. Guessed it would be luck of the draw if I fell for any of their tones.

 

I do like the voicing of my six10, pretty over kill for the venues Im now playing but ill never be left wanting. Im happy with my current setup but want more effects to play with, maybe a capture of the genzler could be the start point for a QC base sound?

 

Oh and 1+ for crown amp appreciation here, Ive got a little home cinema setup and use XLS1502 to power my front towers (B&W 685s2) and it absolutely brought them to life in a way the denon avr never could.    

[BigRedX]

I go direct into the PA from my Helix. I have an RCF745 powered speaker (FRFR) that had been using with my other band for rehearsals and the occasional gig on smaller stages.

 

IMO the problem with using a power amp (or power amp section of a bass amp) and bass cab(s) is that the cabs are anything but flat and therefore you'll need to compensate on the multi-effects which isn't what the PA feed will want.

[sikpete]

23 minutes ago, Kev said:

Oh in that case yes I go straight to FoH/IEMs, i've never used a power amp with it.  I think perhaps once or twice i've plugged in to the effects loop return of a practice room amp, but no i'm strictly one of those modern w*nkers  

Haha so eloquently put. I too may go the modern w*nker route in the future as the allen and heath desk we just picked up seems to have some awesome monitoring options. Do you miss the "feel" of the cab moving air behind you? 

[sikpete]

3 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I go direct into the PA from my Helix. I have an RCF745 powered speaker (FRFR) that had been using with my other band for rehearsals and the occasional gig on smaller stages.

 

IMO the problem with using a power amp (or power amp section of a bass amp) and bass cab(s) is that the cabs are anything but flat and therefore you'll need to compensate on the multi-effects which isn't what the PA feed will want.

Guitarists having this exact issue. What sounds good through the stage cabs sounds way to bright when sent as a signal straight to the desk so have been micing cabs up which seems arse about face to me. (We are all new to this cover band, produce all your own sound setup so everything is an experiment.) Our tops and subs and both second hand RCF models and we are very impressed with the quality of sound us untrained muppets can get out of them  

[Wombat]

17 minutes ago, sikpete said:

Haha so eloquently put. I too may go the modern w*nker route in the future as the allen and heath desk we just picked up seems to have some awesome monitoring options. Do you miss the "feel" of the cab moving air behind you? 

I guess everyone is different but I don’t miss having a cab behind me. To put that in context we are playing pretty small pubs with no stage so an added ‘bonus’ is that it’s one less thing to try and fit round the drum kit 😂

[BigRedX]

9 minutes ago, sikpete said:

Do you miss the "feel" of the cab moving air behind you? 

 

I know this question wasn't aimed at me but I thought I'd give you my experience in case it helps.

 

TBH I've never "felt" the air being moved by my bass rig when I was using one not even the massive 1kW rig I had with The Terrortones. I suspect if I had I'd be even deafer than I am now!

 

One of the main reasons for ditching my conventional rig was that on the bigger stages once I stepped away from being directly in front of the cabs I was totally reliant upon the PA foldback anyway, and on the smaller stages I would often find that I was being asked to turn down so much so as not to ruin the FoH from the PA that I could hear more of myself in the guitarist's wedge on the other side the stage than I could from my own rig immediately behind me.

 

For the band that has completely ditched our backline, even though we are yet to go IEMs the overall mix from using the PA foldback is much clearer and better balanced than it was when everyone had their own amp and speakers. For the other band when I was using the FRFR on stage I had it in wedge configuration means that I could put it in all sorts of places where a conventional bass amp and cab(s) wouldn't even begin the fit. Much of the time I had it pointing across the stage for the benefit of the rest of the band rather than out at the audience who should be getting the band sound from the PA. 

[Wombat]

I should add that my back loves me for it and I can usually do 2 carries and I’m in. That’s desk, lights & stands; Rucksack with leads/Stomp/crap, 2 basses.

I did have a helix (when I was mostly playing guitar) but found slimming down to a Stomp was no loss on bass. I change my whole rig depending on song at the press of a button.

We are lucky that one of the guitarists forked out for some lovely Bose speakers and I’m quite pleased with the sound I get through them.

Edited February 10 by Wombat

[Kev]

57 minutes ago, sikpete said:

Haha so eloquently put. I too may go the modern w*nker route in the future as the allen and heath desk we just picked up seems to have some awesome monitoring options. Do you miss the "feel" of the cab moving air behind you? 

I think this is one of those things that bassists with valve heads and 8x10 rigs like to talk about, but I've never experienced the "feel" of a cab behind me.  Perhaps if I stood still at the back of the stage in front of the speaker, but I'm all over the place.  I've gigged without any backline since 2019 and I don't miss it at all.

[sikpete]

Interesting indeed, im pretty sure id miss the feel of my bass but the points about smaller or no stage ring true for us. Very few local bands seem to have dropped their cabs and gone silent stage so im yet to experience the improvement in front of house sound. If i was to of moved around much last 2 shows id of taken out other members and the drum kit. Maybe picking up a second hand wireless kit could be an option to try it and see how I feel about it. Again, all new to me. 

[Wombat]

I use a Boss wireless dongle for my bass (I like the tone and the patches on my stomp are ‘set’ to work with it) even though it’s not needed as I’m not leaping about. What it is great for is wandering out front at sound check to make sure the mix is working.

And as for ‘bass’ I get as much as I want through my IEMs. Or as little - as I’m no where near as loud as the band in my head. It’s nice to not be half deaf on the way home! The trade is that yes it’s a bit sterile but you get used to it after a couple of gigs and ‘less tinnitus’ is a positive trade for me.