Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[Count Bassy]

11 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Trump may be humiliated in the eyes of liberal Europeans, but to his domestic audience this will play very well.

 

 

 

Not so sure, The democrates will not be impressed, and i'm sure that  a lot of moderate republicans will also find this embarrassing.

 

I am largely a Labour supporter ,in that I agree more of their policies than those of the other perties, but If I saw Starmer behaving like this then I'd definitely be embarrassed for my country. Mind you, we're talking Americans here, and who knows how their brains work?

 

[Geddys nose]

Credit to Zelensky it was spoken in his 3rd language too, subtle humour and nuance ( not like Trump and Vance have any) is hard to naturally use if you are not fluent in English.

 

Vance is a Pound shop politician and utterly out of his depth.

[Burns-bass]

6 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

 

Not so sure, The democrates will not be impressed, and i'm sure that  a lot of moderate republicans will also find this embarrassing.

 

I am largely a Labour supporter ,in that I agree more of their policies than those of the other perties, but If I saw Starmer behaving like this then I'd definitely be embarrassed for my country. Mind you, we're talking Americans here, and who knows how their brains work?

 

My dad used to live in America so we spent a lot of time there, and they’re some of the loveliest, friendliest and most loyal people you’ll meet. They are also incredibly patriotic with an almost religious belief in the sanctity of the country. Zelensky will be seen to have insulted America and I think will tarnish his image.

 

Watching the footage on the BBC, I think  this was a pre-planned attack.

 

Edited Friday at 22:24 by Burns-bass

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Just now, Burns-bass said:

 

Watching the footage on the BBC, I think  this was a pre-planned attack.

 

I expected him to be hostile after the way he's been speaking over the past few days. If anyone had any doubts about Trump being Putin's puppet, this disgusting behaviour from him towards Zelensky should banish any doubts. He is doing exactly what Putin told him to do. Anyone who voted for this buffoon after all the warning signs should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

[Lozz196]

24 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

 

Not so sure, The democrates will not be impressed, and i'm sure that  a lot of moderate republicans will also find this embarrassing.

 

I am largely a Labour supporter ,in that I agree more of their policies than those of the other perties, but If I saw Starmer behaving like this then I'd definitely be embarrassed for my country. Mind you, we're talking Americans here, and who knows how their brains work?

 

I agree, I’d be embarrassed for my country if I witnessed any of our leaders be it past or present behaving like that, imo he’s shown the whole world his backside with what he’s done today.

[Steve Browning]

I'm watching Newsnight and I cannot believe what the US correspondents are saying. 

[Russ]

59 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I don’t but the conspiracy that Trump and Putin are conspiring to sell out Ukraine. 

What’s more likely is that Trumps attempt to force Ukraine to sign a minerals deal has stalled and this is the response. 
 

They’ve humiliated Zelensky and emboldened Putin and I think if he (Zelensky) had left his pride at the door and worked with Trump as Starmer did, the outcome could have been better.

There is no working with Tr**p. If it wasn't obvious before that Putin has him firmly by the balls, then it is now. He showed himself as a petulant, bullying child who isn't fit to sit in that same office as so many great statesmen who came before him.

 

This will lose him a lot more friends than it'll make him. 

[Russ]

4 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I'm watching Newsnight and I cannot believe what the US correspondents are saying. 

Can't watch it right now (being that I'm in the US, but hopefully not for all that much longer) - what are they saying? 

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

If you park your personal animosity to Trump (which I share, by the way) you have to understand he’s in charge.

 

Trump is a mafia boss. You pay your tribute to him and follow his rules, or you’re ostracised.

 

Zelensky’s pride could cause the deaths of many thousands and see significant losses of territory. 
 

It also emboldens Russia.

 

I 100% agree Trump is a horrid person, a bully, a misogynist and quite probably senile. But he’s in charge.

 

Pride? It was self-respect, and if Zelenskyy had no self-respect, Ukraine would be a Russian vasal state by now.

 

Trump is an absolute and utter shit, and the only ones embarrassed by this whole clusterf*ck were Vance and Trump.

[tegs07]

Always worth remembering:

 

Trump has a long, uneven history with Zelensky, having been impeached in 2019 for withholding arms shipments to Ukraine in an attempt to pressure the Ukrainian leader to open an investigation into his Democratic rival, Joe Biden.

 

Source BBC

[Steve Browning]

6 minutes ago, Russ said:

Can't watch it right now (being that I'm in the US, but hopefully not for all that much longer) - what are they saying? 

They are both echoing what Trump said. One of them suggested Ukraine was kidnapping people to serve in the army, among other things. 

[Mrbigstuff]

35 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

My dad used to live in America so we spent a lot of time there, and they’re some of the loveliest, friendliest and most loyal people you’ll meet. They are also incredibly patriotic with an almost religious belief in the sanctity of the country. Zelensky will be seen to have insulted America and I think will tarnish his image.

Did you type that while doing the voice and hands?

 

Theres good and bad people everywhere, but Trump is clearly one of the lowest lowlifes and has been his whole life.

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

I despise Starmer, but he handled Trump well. Zelensky completely misread the situation and has embarrassed himself here. 
 

The reality is, there’s no Ukraine without the USA. We know it and Trump knows it. Europe may be able to manage to cobble together the cash to cover the USA’s contribution, but we don’t have the capacity to create the arms that Ukraine needs.

 

Trump was always going to try and create a peace deal through force. Zelensky had months to prepare his response and all I heard was him arguing with Trump.

 

This was an opportunity to side with Trump and try and drive a wedge between him and Putin, but he’s pushed them closer together - which could be dangerous for Europe.

 

 

I don’t agree but I guess time will tell. I imagine a lot of people at the time felt Chamberlain had done the right thing with Hitler, i.e, treated a deviant psychopath with respect because he was a powerful deviant psychopath. I believe - and sincerely hope - that Zelenski did what was best tonight, but a lot of what follows will depend on Europe’s response 

[Burns-bass]

9 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

Pride? It was self-respect, and if Zelenskyy had no self-respect, Ukraine would be a Russian vasal state by now.

 

Trump is an absolute and utter shit, and the only ones embarrassed by this whole clusterf*ck were Vance and Trump.

So Zelensky’s pride is intact but arms shipments have stopped. What’s better for the people of Ukraine?

 

Zelensky hasn’t fought the war single handed, has he? Ukrainians are proud people and incredibly strong, but they’re being propped up by the US.

 

Without that guarantee, they’d have lost by now.

 

I agree with your assessment of Trump. I’m not supporting him, I’m merely suggesting that an experienced statesperson would have handled this differently.

 

 

[Burns-bass]

2 minutes ago, Beedster said:

I don’t agree but I guess time will tell. I imagine a lot of people at the time felt Chamberlain had done the right thing with Hitler, i.e, treated a deviant psychopath with respect because he was a powerful deviant psychopath. I believe - and sincerely hope - that Zelenski did what was best tonight, but a lot of what follows will depend on Europe’s response 

Zelensky has no power and no leverage.

 

As awful as it sounds, it’s true. Trump knows it, Putin knows it and Europe’s leaders know it.

 

We simply don’t have the cash in hand or the manufacturing base to create arms at the scale needed by Ukraine.

 

Surely we have power? The entire UK infantry could fit into Wembley Stadium with about 10,000 empty seats. 

Ukraine has no future without the USA, regardless of how many supportive tweets European leaders punch out tonight with their PR teams. 

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

So Zelensky’s pride is intact but arms shipments have stopped. What’s better for the people of Ukraine?

 

Zelensky hasn’t fought the war single handed, has he? Ukrainians are proud people and incredibly strong, but they’re being propped up by the US.

 

Without that guarantee, they’d have lost by now.

 

I agree with your assessment of Trump. I’m not supporting him, I’m merely suggesting that an experienced statesperson would have handled this differently.

 

 

I found reading a transcript of the interview far more revealing than the interview itself:

 

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/02/28/trump-zelensky-meeting-transcript-full-text-video-oval-office/

[oldslapper]

How many did Putin knock out watching that? 
He’ll have trouble signing any papers for a few days. 

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Zelensky has no power and no leverage.

 

As awful as it sounds, it’s true. Trump knows it, Putin knows it and Europe’s leaders know it.

 

We simply don’t have the cash in hand or the manufacturing base to create arms at the scale needed by Ukraine.

 

Surely we have power? The entire UK infantry could fit into Wembley Stadium with about 10,000 empty seats. 

Ukraine has no future without the USA, regardless of how many supportive tweets European leaders punch out tonight with their PR teams. 

This is all true. Zelensky knows it but what he was desperately trying to say over all the shouting is that diplomacy has been tried in the past and Russia repeatedly broke agreements. He was trying to get access the point that any peace deal without guarantees and backstops was worthless and would be a mistake and that mistake would come back to bite the USA later on.

 

Did he do a great job of it? No but Vance was itching for an argument. Just utterly inept. Scenes like this will have an impact but I don’t think favourably. It was embarrassing to watch.

[Burns-bass]

Just now, tegs07 said:

This is all true. Zelensky knows it but what he was desperately trying to say over all the shouting is that diplomacy has been tried in the past and Russia repeatedly broke agreements. He was trying to get access the point that any peace deal without guarantees and backstops was worthless and would be a mistake and that mistake would come back to bite the USA later on.

 

Did he do a great job of it? No but Vance was itching for an argument. Just utterly inept. Scenes like this will have an impact but I don’t think favourably. It was embarrassing to watch.

Completely agree.

[Buddster]

News Night is worth a watch if you have iplayer. 

 

Vance said to Zelensky that he was being disrespectful in his actions in front of the press. And rather than stopping there, suggesting they leave this to a private meeting, went on to directly bully and finger pointing Zelensky, goading him in to arguing. 

 

[prowla]

18 minutes ago, Buddster said:

News Night is worth a watch if you have iplayer. 

 

Vance said to Zelensky that he was being disrespectful in his actions in front of the press. And rather than stopping there, suggesting they leave this to a private meeting, went on to directly bully and finger pointing Zelensky, goading him in to arguing. 

 

Classic escalation technique. 

[oldslapper]

Well there you have a desperate leader of a country invaded by an aggressive, despotic, and dangerous leader of a very powerful country, at his wits end, desperately trying to get the help he thinks he needs, from an aggressive, despotic and dangerous leader of another country. 
I think I’d be shouting the odds at the orange one and his puppet side kick. 

Meanwhile the first despot is laughing harder and harder at the circus and impotence the world has shown towards his tyranny. Maybe that’s the NATO tactic? Vlad dies from laughing too hard? 
 

I've never been in a situation that Ukraine and its leaders have faced for these past 3 years, but I’d have hoped for better from some…

[chris_b]

Zelensky is the victim here.

 

You can argue about what he should have done or what he shouldn't have done, but that's not the story. Trump and Vance’s little game, their disgusting hatchet job, is the story. It won't be reported accurately in the US. All mainstream media is living in fear right now. Every time they are reporting on a Trump story, their main concern is not to be sued by Musk or Trump, or both, or lose their broadcasting licences.

 

The world has become a less safe place after today.

Edited Saturday at 00:11 by chris_b

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

I found reading a transcript of the interview far more revealing than the interview itself:

 

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/02/28/trump-zelensky-meeting-transcript-full-text-video-oval-office/

Christ it’s even worse in print 😡

 

USA must be very proud of itself tonight 

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, Buddster said:

News Night is worth a watch if you have iplayer. 

 

Vance said to Zelensky that he was being disrespectful in his actions in front of the press. And rather than stopping there, suggesting they leave this to a private meeting, went on to directly bully and finger pointing Zelensky, goading him in to arguing. 

 

Newsnight - one American woman churning out every Kremlin-generated trope available, and saying that Zelenskyy was making veiled threats. Penny Mordaunt grovelling to Trump. Some rational analysis too.