Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[tauzero]

Oh, according to the mad American woman who was apparently an ambassador for the US in Trump's first term, Joe Biden started the war. I think there are no limits to the lunacy around Trump.

 

Edit: Carla Sands. Mad as seventeen boxes of frogs.

Edited Saturday at 01:28 by tauzero

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

I just watched the clip, I dare say I’m not the only one in the world that longed for Zelensky to get up and punch the twunt (Vance/Ponce/Whateverhisname).

At one point he called Vance a bitch, too bad he didn't take the bait.

6 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Trump may be humiliated in the eyes of liberal Europeans, but to his domestic audience this will play very well. (If we look at sheer numbers, most of the world sides with Russia. China, India, much of Africa and South America do, for example, and this will play well there too.)

The problem now is that European nations can’t and won’t get directly involved. We have no leverage without the USA.

 

The first thing Europe needs to do in the way of direct involvement is stop buying the freaking Russian gas. The only stuff going in and out of Ruusia should be via China, if they aren't on board. Putin would have to fold or be rolled.

 

Zelenski has plenty of leverage through Europe. It's not like the Ukrainians can't fight on without US munitions. EU makes plenty and so does Ukraine. They lead the way in UAV.

 

But jezz Louise, just stop buying the gas!!

[tegs07]

6 hours ago, Beedster said:

Christ it’s even worse in print 😡

 

USA must be very proud of itself tonight 

In print it looks fairly orchestrated. The heated discussions usually take place behind closed doors. This looks like a public way of either forcing Zelensky to accept a deal or being able to blame him for what happens if he doesn’t buckle under.

 

The longer term issue is the US have publicly shown they are not committed to Ukraine’s security and by extension Europe and NATO.

 

The biggest winner in this is Putin followed by Xi. An isolationist, unreliable, publicly antagonistic leader prone to temper tantrums with his own allies makes China’s claim to power more legitimate.

 

The question now is how should NATO respond. It’s clear that under Trump NATO has no US backing so does Europe wake up and redefine itself?

Geopolitical disaster 

 

A stronger Russia 

A stronger China 

A divided NATO

 

Trump has sidelined all the people that kept him in check last time around and is playing a game he doesn’t understand against long term strategists who will outmanoeuvre him. 

 

All he cares about is settling old scores, making money and looking tough. Other players think far ahead and bide their time whilst building economic and political alliances.

 

Edited Saturday at 07:14 by tegs07

[tegs07]

The only other thing I would add to the above is Trump is trying to steer India and South East Asian countries away from the Russian and Chinese sphere of influence.

I am not an expert in business or cultural matters but have spent time in both India and South East Asia. 
Shouting and losing your temper are not seen as a sign of strength but as a personal weakness. The second issue is there is a strong sense of loyalty, respect and not losing face. Publicly shaming an ally or business partner is a massive mistake.

 

IMO Trump and Valence have not done the USA any favours in this part of the world.

Edited Saturday at 08:17 by tegs07

[Buddster]

Yes, the mask slipped yesterday. 

If you've read any books about him, you know this is how the man is and acts. But for once, it was shown in public. 

[Mrbigstuff]

30 minutes ago, Buddster said:

Yes, the mask slipped yesterday. 

If you've read any books about him, you know this is how the man is and acts. But for once, it was shown in public. 

Or was it the plan all along. Put a deal in front of Zelensky that he can’t accept, pull arms from Ukraine, Putin gets Ukraine and Trump blames it on Zelensky to his abhorrent followers. 

[Doctor J]

Upon reflection, I reckon this was Trump and his puppy reneging on the security aspects of the minerals deal on live TV. Big Z has been adamant there is no deal without those guarantees and he alluded to it again during the orchestrated attack. Trump thought he could pressure Z into signing a bad deal by trying to humiliate him in public in front of the entire world, but it's clear he and his lackey don't encounter men of principle too frequently. If one good thing has come out of it, the people of Ukraine can be sure their leader is not going to sell them out.

[tegs07]

8 minutes ago, Mrbigstuff said:

Or was it the plan all along. Put a deal in front of Zelensky that he can’t accept, pull arms from Ukraine, Putin gets Ukraine and Trump blames it on Zelensky to his abhorrent followers. 

Probably this. He doesn’t actually have a workable plan that Russia or Ukraine would agree to.

The only “ plan” was to withdraw US support and try and profit from the outcome. This way he can just deflect responsibility and blame Zelensky.

[Doctor J]

And his meeting with Putin a couple of weeks ago bears more than a shadow of Von Ribbentrop meeting Molotov.

[tegs07]

Last thought (promise) as I am a little preoccupied by this issue. What does Europe do now?

Trump has previously said “Russia can do what the hell they like” to European countries who don’t pay their share. He has now publicly renounced the Biden led commitment to support Ukraine.

If the US can’t be counted on NATO is effectively disempowered.

 

Should Europe just accept this? Plan for no US assistance in the face of Russian aggression? 

 

If so should European powers be prepared to support the USA if China makes a move on Taiwan with its vast semiconductor industry?

 

Or against further military expansion in the South China Seas?

 

Some big issues that the sun(bed) king seems to have misjudged.

Edited Saturday at 09:44 by tegs07

[Agent 00Soul]

11 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

Mind you, we're talking Americans here, and who knows how their brains work?

 

 

That's an odd thing to write.  Well, I grew up in the US and am a citizen so feel free to ask me. I can answer for 1/346.649,379th of us.

[Burns-bass]

12 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

 

That's an odd thing to write.  Well, I grew up in the US and am a citizen so feel free to ask me. I can answer for 1/346.649,379th of us.

I’m sure it’s meant in a lighthearted way, but Europeans are arrogant and widely consider ourselves to be culturally and intellectually superior. Read any newspaper to see the way they speak about Trump. I don’t like the guy, but I can sort of understand why he has a chip on his shoulder.

[tegs07]

6 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I’m sure it’s meant in a lighthearted way, but Europeans are arrogant and widely consider ourselves to be culturally and intellectually superior. Read any newspaper to see the way they speak about Trump. I don’t like the guy, but I can sort of understand why he has a chip on his shoulder.

There’s an element of Truth in this but I would say that there is a tendency to stereotype all nations and prejudice against them based on the actions of their leaders. Being British or Israeli or American this is very obvious when travelling.

 

As for the grudges held by Trump well they go waaaay back in time, well before he was a household name or president. I guess he is a Marmite kind of guy. 

[Burns-bass]

20 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

There’s an element of Truth in this but I would say that there is a tendency to stereotype all nations and prejudice against them based on the actions of their leaders. Being British or Israeli or American this is very obvious when travelling.

 

As for the grudges held by Trump well they go waaaay back in time, well before he was a household name or president. I guess he is a Marmite kind of guy. 

Which is why it’s so odd they chose Mandelson. Guess maybe he and Trump met on Epstein island 

[tauzero]

35 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

As for the grudges held by Trump well they go waaaay back in time, well before he was a household name or president. I guess he is a Marmite kind of guy. 

 

Looks more like a marmalade kind of guy.

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

Last thought (promise) as I am a little preoccupied by this issue. What does Europe do now?

Trump has previously said “Russia can do what the hell they like” to European countries who don’t pay their share. He has now publicly renounced the Biden led commitment to support Ukraine.

If the US can’t be counted on NATO is effectively disempowered.

 

NATO for many years needed sufficient force to counter the Warsaw Pact countries - USSR, Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, and Romania. Since then, the Warsaw Pact has been replaced by a military alliance of Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, and Tajikistan, and the non-USSR countries in the Warsaw Pact have joined NATO. Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have also joined NATO. So a Free Europe military alliance without the USA should be able to stand against Russia and its allies.

 

What's going to happen about all the US military bases dotted around Europe? Kick them all out? Either the US is going to have to keep its commitment or it's going to have to take the bases out.

[Agent 00Soul]

27 minutes ago, tauzero said:

Either the US is going to have to keep its commitment or it's going to have to take the bases out.

 

Agreed.  The problem will be a few specific bases like Ramstein which is crucial to US supply lines.  I honestly don't know what would happen if Germany asked them to close it up and leave.

[mcnach]

On 26/02/2025 at 13:53, Lozz196 said:

I`m no fan of the orange one, however if the below can be secured: 

 

Russia stop their war against Ukraine, with Putin walking away saying he did no negotiating with Zelensky/Ukraine

Ukraine no longer have Russia waging war against them, they concede land which had been taken some time ago, and provide minerals to the US

Trump states it couldn`t have happened without his intervention

 

Then take it. Better than more people dying and losing homes/businesses/loved ones. It`s not necessarily ideal but imo preferable to war.

 

 

Nice way to encourage Putin to do it again.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

I’m sure it’s meant in a lighthearted way, but Europeans are arrogant and widely consider ourselves to be culturally and intellectually superior.

 

Whilst electing people like Truss and Boris, so really have no grounds to fight on. they would have also caused disaster if we mattered as much as the US.

[Agent 00Soul]

10 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Whilst electing people like Truss and Boris, so really have no grounds to fight on. they would have also caused disaster if we mattered as much as the US.

 

Although to be 100% fair, Truss wasn't elected by the public, she was elected internally by the Tories to be head of the party and thus PM.  But I get the sentiment.

 

Edited Saturday at 12:19 by Agent 00Soul
spelling

[Woodinblack]

4 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

Although to be 100% fair, Truss wasn't elected by the public, she was elected internally by the Tories to be head of the party and thus PM.  But I get the sentiment.

 

But Boris was elected by a majority. Out of all the people who bothered to vote, most of them decided that he was a fit person to represent the country and not a total embarrassment. 

[Agent 00Soul]

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But Boris was elected by a majority. Out of all the people who bothered to vote, most of them decided that he was a fit person to represent the country and not a total embarrassment. 

 

That's the dark side of democracy I suppose.  The kind that makes Chinese politicos chuckle.  Trump won the popular vote fair and square, but it was hardly a landslide.  A little over a single percentage point I think.  Presidential elections tend to be close, but that was really close.  (Winning all swing states and a historic high of Black, Hispanic, and Asian voters was a genuine triumph for him though.). Either way, I think it's smaller than the victorious leave vote in Brexit.  Even in Congress, the GOP has a majority of 3 in both the House and the Senate.  Again, that's all it takes, but it is hardly representative of some kind of monolithic consensus - quite the opposite actually.

 

BBC - How Big Was Donald Trump's Victory

[Leonard Smalls]

4 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

Trump won the popular vote fair and square

Arguably 

There's a conspiracy theory going round about a series of fire alarms going off in polling stations expected to have Biden majorities, and Elon's boys nipping in with USB drives...

Which is why Mr SmellsLikeDeerScrotum said he had an app that proved who'd won before any announcements. And why Mr Trumpy-bot is said to be "owned" by him, including his kid telling the Trumpstickle that!

Who knows? In a way I'd like to believe it, as I despair for a country that big-majority elects such a prize fin-de-cloche! (Though we came close... Then there's Mr Orban... And Ms LePen... And the German AFP... And that Austrian lot, and the Dutch geezer.

Eek!!!

[PaulWarning]

35 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But Boris was elected by a majority. Out of all the people who bothered to vote, most of them decided that he was a fit person to represent the country and not a total embarrassment. 

Boris was in the lead when it came to helping out Ukraine when Russia first invaded

[prowla]

41 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But Boris was elected by a majority. Out of all the people who bothered to vote, most of them decided that he was a fit person to represent the country and not a total embarrassment. 

Well, people voted for the war criminal too.