Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[Dad3353]

There is a simple solution, of course; Russia becomes member of the EU and joins NATO. Problem solved. 

[tegs07]

20 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

There is a simple solution, of course; Russia becomes member of the EU and joins NATO. Problem solved. 

I think Germany were trying to get as close an integration as possible. It kinda backfired.

[TimR]

39 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

There is a simple solution, of course; Russia becomes member of the EU and joins NATO. Problem solved. 

The problem with Russia, China, India, EU, and the US, is that a single government overseeing hundreds of millions of people leaves hundreds of millions of people disenfranchised. You live in your small village and are subject to rules that you have no say over. 

 

Certain leaders want to be the people who say what everyone can and can't do. Let's call them dictators. Whether they're elected or not. 

Edited 2 hours ago by TimR

[prowla]

12 minutes ago, TimR said:

The problem with Russia, China, India, EU, and the US, is that a single government overseeing hundreds of millions of people leaves hundreds of millions of people disenfranchised. You live in your small village and are subject to rules that you have no say over. 

 

Certain leaders want to be the people who say what everyone can and can't do. Let's call them dictators. Whether they're elected or not. 

 

Yep - I view the EU as being like a multinational; head office has its mission, never mind the little people.

[prowla]

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

Whether it'd be right or not I'm not sure, but I do think if Europe was as united as countries like China, or Russia, the United States, then it could be a military Superpower:

 

• Europe: Population 750m, GDP $28 trillion
• USA: Population 340m, GDP $28 trillion
• China: Population 1.4bn, GDP $18 trillion
• Russia: Population  144m, GDP $2 trillion.

 

I suppose that is a big if as getting all of Europe aligned to one military goal is a lot easier said than done. Europe as a region probably hoped more than most that the days or 'might is right' were past us as two world wars started in Europe didn't really bring Europe anything other than suffering, collectively had the feeling that others will realise that too and effort can be spent on better things.  

 

If Russia wasn't unpredictable and with Nuclear weapons then it wouldn't be much of a threat to a united Europe. Europe has more than 5x the population and 14x the GDP, I mean, I'm sure pretty much any European country could develop their own nuclear weapons pretty quickly if they really wanted to, I suppose they hoped the world would move towards other priorities.

 

In fact, if it was a game of Risk or top trumps it looks like Europe would be a winner on all other than vs China for population (....India enters the room as the next nuclear armed superpower). 

 

Actually, India is the world's most populous country.

Regarding Europe, it's not a country and a number of people don't want it to be.

(But we can and do work together, including on defence and other matters.)

[peteb]

28 minutes ago, TimR said:

The problem with Russia, China, India, EU, and the US, is that a single government overseeing hundreds of millions of people leaves hundreds of millions of people disenfranchised. You live in your small village and are subject to rules that you have no say over. 

 

Certain leaders want to be the people who say what everyone can and can't do. Let's call them dictators. Whether they're elected or not. 

 

That's a rather strange statement. For a start, every country in the EU has its own government (despite what the Brexity types would have you believe) and how does a democratically elected government leave people who live in this 'small village', but presumably had the opportunity to vote in an election, disenfranchised? 

 

The current situation does make one thing abundantly clear (as if it wasn't before) - the European democracies need to act strategically together in things like defence, otherwise they are vulnerable to the really big powers and just too small to stand up to them on their own. 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by peteb

[SumOne]

8 minutes ago, prowla said:

 

Actually, India is the world's most populous country.

Regarding Europe, it's not a country and a number of people don't want it to be.

(But we can and do work together, including on defence and other matters.)

 

Well yeah, I said (or alluded to) both of those things.