Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[tegs07]

9 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

 

Indeed. I see Tru*p is now trying to make out that he is getting tough on Russia after two days of intense bombing of civilian infrastructure. Maybe it’s because he and he attack dog now look like a pair of bullies who publicly humiliated the leader of a smaller country, took away his catapult and stood by and watched whilst his home was destroyed.

 

Can’t be great for ratings.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

Never forget we have spies in Russia and China. I don't know if the US do, maybe they do and he isn't listening.

 

Probably busy filling in their '5 things I did last week' emails to send off to doggy.

[prowla]

I seriously think that random thoughts pop into Trump's head and he just says "Make it so".

Tariffs against neighbours and allies, then backtracked, then exclusions applied.

Supporting Russia, deliberate humiliation of Zelenski, withdrawing support from Ukraine, and now considering more sanctions against Russia.

Saying he'll act against drug dealers and rapists and then providing a sanctuary for them (accused) in the US.

Looking inwards in the US but simultaneously believing he can solve international issues.

He is pretty much making himself a laughing stock (except it isn't funny).

[peteb]

29 minutes ago, prowla said:

He is pretty much making himself a laughing stock (except it isn't funny).

 

To keep with the Joker theme from earlier, it's the Killing Joke...! 

 

[Agent 00Soul]

3 hours ago, tegs07 said:

 

I don't know why this guy or some in the British newsmedia keeps saying that a critical mass of people in the US, especially Republicans is starting to protest against Trump.  They aren't, at least not in any numbers or in any meaningful way that will have any kind of impact.  Trump is a symptom and catalyst for what has been building in the US since Obama, not the cause.  He would never have gotten this far if there weren't enough people who, deep down, agree with him even if they find him personally distasteful.  He's the means to an ends.

 

Also, when are French people going to learn that US Republicans wear the criticisms coming from France as a badge of honour?  As far as they are concerned, it's a sign that they are doing something right.

[tegs07]

32 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

I don't know why this guy or some in the British newsmedia keeps saying that a critical mass of people in the US, especially Republicans is starting to protest against Trump.  They aren't, at least not in any numbers or in any meaningful way that will have any kind of impact.  Trump is a symptom and catalyst for what has been building in the US since Obama, not the cause.  He would never have gotten this far if there weren't enough people who, deep down, agree with him even if they find him personally distasteful.  He's the means to an ends.

 

Also, when are French people going to learn that US Republicans wear the criticisms coming from France as a badge of honour?  As far as they are concerned, it's a sign that they are doing something right.

IMO Trump got elected on a bunch of lies, the biggest wopper being that under Biden the economy was mismanaged. The US roared out of Covid with a ton of jobs created, GDP increasing, inflation being cooled and the stock market on fire.

 

Some folks really need to learn to check facts and do some research. The next inflation read and the inevitable coming battle with the FED may well give you guys your very own Truss moment if Trump gets his way.

 

Edit: I have no idea of the validity of the protests claim. I did watch Trump’s speech to the party faithful though and whilst the usual bombast got raucous cheers there was a very muted response to the economic side of things. The kind of change that Trump is driving may succeed in the long term but people don’t think in decades they judge in weeks and months.

Edited Friday at 19:00 by tegs07

[prowla]

14 hours ago, Agent 00Soul said:

I don't know why this guy or some in the British newsmedia keeps saying that a critical mass of people in the US, especially Republicans is starting to protest against Trump.  They aren't, at least not in any numbers or in any meaningful way that will have any kind of impact.  Trump is a symptom and catalyst for what has been building in the US since Obama, not the cause.  He would never have gotten this far if there weren't enough people who, deep down, agree with him even if they find him personally distasteful.  He's the means to an ends.

 

Also, when are French people going to learn that US Republicans wear the criticisms coming from France as a badge of honour?  As far as they are concerned, it's a sign that they are doing something right.

That's a useful perspective.

Whilst I agree with Trump about the NATO funding and the members blind expectation that the US will always be the backstop and the money pot, the fact is that the US assumed that mantle willingly and knowingly.

The rest of what he's doing seems to be bizarre and I'm wondering how it's being presented.

The Greenland aspirations seem to align with Russia/Ukraine and China/Taiwan.

The tariff wars can't help anybody in the US nor their neighbours.

Will the US pull back from the Pacific too?

US allies, who've supported the US in its campaigns over recent decades are now questioning whether they can continue to be so aligned or whether ties might be cut on a whim.

Is that being discussed in the US?

[tegs07]

15 hours ago, tegs07 said:

He would never have gotten this far if there weren't enough people who, deep down, agree with him even if they find him personally distasteful.  He's the means to an ends.

The problem is that “ends” is a techno-conservative-utopian alliance which will concentrate extreme wealth and power into ever fewer hands.

 

I get how two decades of ultra low interest rates have allowed the wealthy to accumulate assets at a rapid rate and screw the average citizen BUT to then hand unchecked power to the very people that benefited from one of the biggest asset heists in history is beyond comprehension. The talk of colonising Mars is even more bewildering. 

 

The delusional elected by the deluded.

 

Edit: Not sure why it’s attributed Agent001 Soul’s quote to me?

Edited yesterday at 10:39 by tegs07

[Agent 00Soul]

1 hour ago, prowla said:

Is that being discussed in the US?

 Based on what family and friends are telling me: very much so. All those things are being discussed lots. But the fact remains that Trump is doing exactly what people who voted for him claim they wanted, and so far don’t seem to mind the whole evolution to kleptocracy thing, as the current system (let’s call it elective democracy for want of a more accurate term) has definitely not really been working for almost a generation so people have given up on it as unfixable. Correction: it works but not for Joe/Josephine Average. There actually are lots of organized and spontaneous protests but the media isn’t covering them and they don’t really matter anyway because it’s the usual subjects - Dems, progressives, identity groups - doing them so it is having the effect of pissing in the wind. 

[peteb]

51 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

Based on what family and friends are telling me: very much so. All those things are being discussed lots. But the fact remains that Trump is doing exactly what people who voted for him claim they wanted, and so far don’t seem to mind the whole evolution to kleptocracy thing, as the current system (let’s call it elective democracy for want of a more accurate term) has definitely not really been working for almost a generation so people have given up on it as unfixable.

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas!

 

It's pretty clear that the current system hasn't been working for 'Joe/Josephine Average', especially in the last sixteen years or so, but the main reason for that is the system has allowed drastically increasing wealth inequality. So these people want to replace it with a new system that will accelerate this inequality of wealth and leave them even worse off! You have to wonder if there will ever be a tipping point where increasingly less affluent Americans will realise this, and even rebel against it? Perhaps that would be too unamerican... 

 

[tegs07]

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas!

 

It's pretty clear that the current system hasn't been working for 'Joe/Josephine Average', especially in the last sixteen years or so, but the main reason for that is the system has allowed drastically increasing wealth inequality. So these people want to replace it with a new system that will accelerate this inequality of wealth and leave them even worse off! You have to wonder if there will ever be a tipping point where increasingly less affluent Americans will realise this, and even rebel against it? Perhaps that would be too unamerican... 

 

Honestly I find it bewildering that this needs to be pointed out. The solution to the collapse of industry and massive deficit is to stop asset stripping, tax evasion and the massive accumulation of passive income.

 

Some of Trump’s ideas in the mid to long term might stimulate growth but it’s a model that will benefit the wealthy by reducing regulation and workers rights and social security. In the short term I can just see the cost of living spiking and job losses due to uncertainty. Time to hold a proportion of your wealth in gold and other inflation proof assets IMO. If you have nothing but your labour to sell then it’s an uncertain time. Celebrating this is beyond me.

[PaulWarning]

watched a program on PBS last night about the rise and fall and rise of Trump, the reason people voted for him was because is is viewed as anti establishment, Joe Public is fed up with Identity woke politics, every time the 'establishment' came after him with another summons it just reinforced this view.

But the thing thing that sealed it was his reaction when he got shot, fist raised shouting fight fight fight

[zbd1960]

The current issues in the US are a more extreme version of what we've had, which to avoid further comment I'll just call the "EU issue". 

 

The underlying issues are complex, multi-faceted, and have been decades in the making. 

 

A big part of the issue is the disconnect between metropolitan elites and everyone else. In the UK this manifests itself in particular as the Westminster Bubble where the movers and shakers think that London is the centre of the universe and are oblivious to the the fact that the rest of the UK is not the same as London. Someone suggests major infrastructure projects for the London area and no-one bats an eyelid over the costs and planning is sorted out. Suggest infrastructure improvements/needs elsewhere and all of a sudden it's "too costly", "not needed", "can't approve that" etc. A66 upgrade locally being a particular bone of contention.

 

Politicians in the centre get obsessed with the minutiae of their little world and fail to understand the real needs of the people outside. For a while, perhaps decades, voter inertia and party loyalties prevail and obscure to the centre what is going on. At some point the disconnect leads to a rupture. Some demagogue comes along and tells people they're not listened to and they have a brand of snake oil that will fix everything...

 

Of course they are liars and charlatans. Unfortunately, for a while it will work unless serious effort is put into countering it.   

 

 

 

[tegs07]

Both of the above points are totally valid. What worries me is that the new breed of politicians offering solutions by spreading hatred and division whilst pursuing an agenda designed to increase the wealth and power of the minority are even worse.

 

If European democracy is to survive then there are some major lessons to learn, particularly in countering the lies of the so called anti-establishment (these people are the establishment! Ex bankers, tech and real estate moguls etc ), there is also some acceptance required by the average Joe about the rise of the Asian economy and how the western world is no longer the centre of the universe and we can’t just take our economic and physical security for granted.

Edited yesterday at 12:19 by tegs07

[TimR]

Don't forget that they're all indoctrinated from an early age that the US is the best country in the world. The land of opportunity. If you're poor, you only have yourself to blame, work harder.

 

Get ill. It's your fault for having a poor immune system.

 

Get fat. It's your fault for eating too much.

 

If the worst case happens, pray to God, and he'll sort it for you. If he doesn't, then it's your fault for doing something bad.

 

And they've guilted themselves into believing everything. If you fall into one of those categories, you'd rather believe it's all your fault than change your entire life belief system. Or blame anyone (the left) who tells you it can be fixed by doing it a different way.

[peteb]

21 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

watched a program on PBS last night about the rise and fall and rise of Trump, the reason people voted for him was because is is viewed as anti establishment, Joe Public is fed up with Identity woke politics, every time the 'establishment' came after him with another summons it just reinforced this view.

But the thing thing that sealed it was his reaction when he got shot, fist raised shouting fight fight fight

 

I can see that. People are voting for Trump / Farage / Brexit, etc because they are sick of people they perceive to be supporting the opposing side telling them what they have to think on trans issues, etc. 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:21 by peteb

[peteb]

7 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Both of the above points are totally valid. What worries me is that the new breed of politicians offering solutions by spreading hatred and division whilst pursuing an agenda designed to increase the wealth and power of the minority are even worse.

 

If European democracy is to survive then there are some major lessons to learn, particularly in countering the lies of the so called anti-establishment (these people are the establishment! Ex bankers, tech and real estate moguls), there is also some acceptance required by the average Joe about the rise of the Asian economy and how the western world is no longer the centre of the universe and we can’t just take our economic and physical security for granted.

 

As ever, you have summarised the situation perfectly. 

 

Trump disrespecting and abandoning Europe has already been very unpopular this side of the Atlantic and this is likely to grow as populist parties like Reform tear themselves apart (see the morning news)! Perhaps, this is a big opportunity for Europe to actually become a major superpower by untethering itself from the USA and the post WW2 accord. I know, I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic, but you never know in these uncertain times... 

 

[Agent 00Soul]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas!

 

Surely you mean Thanksgiving! 🤪

 

But also, it sounds like lots of people here seem to think the answer is for the US to adopted more European/Canadian welfare state programs. I’ve been hearing it on this side of the Atlantic since the 1980s. It’s not going to happen. It is not in the mainstream culture or something the majority would accept. Until Bernie Sanders and AOC about a decade ago it wasn’t even polite conversation. It was crazy talk from extremists. Look at how controversial Obamacare still is all these years later. Any radical change in the US is going to come from the right for it to taken seriously by most people.  Having said that, I will also add that the whole trope of the US being the best country in the world hasn’t been the majority view for a long time in America. People know they are being left behind internationally. That’s why they are fodder for reactionaries who promise a return to a 1950s standard of living and a pre-civil rights culture. 
 

Edited yesterday at 13:03 by Agent 00Soul

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

As ever, you have summarised the situation perfectly. 

 

Trump disrespecting and abandoning Europe has already been very unpopular this side of the Atlantic and this is likely to grow as populist parties like Reform tear themselves apart (see the morning news)! Perhaps, this is a big opportunity for Europe to actually become a major superpower by untethering itself from the USA and the post WW2 accord. I know, I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic, but you never know in these uncertain times... 

 

I am trying to remain optimistic. To be honest I am hoping that by the mid term elections the policies of Trump et al will have been exposed as not in the interests of the average american. I suspect that the stock market was already in a bubble and showing signs of correction before Trump started to create widespread volatility. The US economy is resilient but tariffs are likely to be inflationary and a I am far from convinced that battle is won.

 

In terms of European there is much talk of the differences but there is far more that unites than divides and a major wake up call that the US may no longer be an ally (and in extreme circumstances even an enemy of NATO Greenland and Canada for example) could be the rallying point and catalyst for change.

[Agent 00Soul]

23 minutes ago, peteb said:

Perhaps, this is a big opportunity for Europe to actually become a major superpower by untethering itself from the USA and the post WW2 accord. I know, I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic, but you never know in these uncertain times... 

 

To be fair, not everyone is going to welcome the idea of a European superpower either. Jewish people and much of the global south have generally not faired too well whenever Europe is really powerful. True or not, that is the perception. A Belgian lady of Somalian descent even mentioned it on NYC tv during the George Floyd protests. Not sure what options there are though. 
 

Ironically European far-right identity groups might be on board for this, even though they like Trump right now. Their love of white people, especially “their” white people, controlling things might take precedence. 
 

Edited yesterday at 12:50 by Agent 00Soul

[tegs07]

8 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

To be fair, not everyone is going to welcome the idea of a European superpower either. Jewish people and much of the global south have generally not faired too well whenever Europe is really powerful. True or not, that is the perception. A Belgian lady of Somalian descent even mentioned it on NYC tv during the George Floyd protests. Not sure what options there are though. 

Europe is not and IMO will never be a superpower. What they can collectively achieve IMO is security and autonomy outside of the US sphere of influence. This will be an extremely vulnerable transition and may fail.

 

What the Republicans under Trump and Vance are failing to realise is that weakening their allies is strengthening their biggest economic and military competitor, China, who will quietly bide their time.

 

I honestly thought that an overcommitted Russia would slowly go bankrupt and China would not achieve the middle income hurdle with their aging population but now with IMO some disastrously short sighted geopolitical strategy by the US they have both been given fresh wind and opportunity.

Edited yesterday at 12:51 by tegs07
clarity

[mcnach]

On 06/03/2025 at 14:25, tegs07 said:

Trump has decided that the USA isn’t going to interfere in foreign affairs.

 

 

That would not be a bad thing.

[mcnach]

On 06/03/2025 at 17:09, StickyDBRmf said:

You made that one up, didn't you?

 

Of course not, what made you think that?

[tegs07]

6 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

That would not be a bad thing.

Indeed but you missed the second part which is having decided that he is doing the opposite but against his allies. The weird thing is that with all the various conspiracy theorists there doesn’t seem to be a conspiracy that Trump is a fully bought up and paid for Russian asset. I don’t believe that by the way. I prefer the simple explanation that he is a buffoon.

[LeftyJ]

To get back to the original post that started this thread: This letter from FMIC to their (American?) dealerships was just posted on Reddit today:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/fender/s/EjSp5N8fSI

 

So yes, Fender are issuing some serious price hikes!