Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[Pseudonym]

1 hour ago, Russ said:

When we can afford it. Probably in the summer, let the kids finish their school year here before having to faff about with getting them into schools back over there. Gives us six months to save up. This whole international moving thing is stressful and expensive, but entirely justified right now, given the colossal slow-motion diarrhoea explosion that's happening over here. I won't have our kids growing up around that. 

 

I wouldn't care to raise children here, either. Good luck with your plans as they develop.

[Obrienp]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

indeed, but he has a point that the EU in general and Germany in particular are not paying the percentage that they committed to pay.

You can play around with statistics quite a lot and get answers that put things in a different perspective. Germany is the second largest donor to Ukraine after the US in absolute terms and that aid is a higher percentage of GDP than the US. In fact, in GDP terms the US’ aid to Ukraine is way down the league table. The Baltic countries give a much higher percentage of their GDP to Ukraine. Ditto their expenditure on defence exceeds the NATO target in GDP terms.

 

The UK is a bit of a laggard. Especially when you realise that the official defence expenditure figures include pensions and other welfare payments to retired service people. Well deserved, of course, and probably should be more generous but even if we attain the magic 2.5% of GDP, that won’t all be spent on defence capabilities.

[tegs07]

8 hours ago, Obrienp said:

You can play around with statistics quite a lot and get answers that put things in a different perspective. Germany is the second largest donor to Ukraine after the US in absolute terms and that aid is a higher percentage of GDP than the US. In fact, in GDP terms the US’ aid to Ukraine is way down the league table. The Baltic countries give a much higher percentage of their GDP to Ukraine. Ditto their expenditure on defence exceeds the NATO target in GDP terms.

 

The UK is a bit of a laggard. Especially when you realise that the official defence expenditure figures include pensions and other welfare payments to retired service people. Well deserved, of course, and probably should be more generous but even if we attain the magic 2.5% of GDP, that won’t all be spent on defence capabilities.

Amongst all the effluent that trumpland spews there are some nuggets of truth. Whichever way we look at statistics he has a point that Europe needs to spend more on defence.

There is an opportunity to provide work, training and opportunity to young people through a career in the military. I don’t want to generalise about an entire generation but I do see a lack of resilience in the younger guys at work. Resilience that can be achieved through sports, camping, rock climbing, playing an instrument. Often expensive hobbies that are missing from many people’s lives. It’s not for everyone but plenty benefit from a career in the armed forces.

[Burns-bass]

9 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Amongst all the effluent that trumpland spews there are some nuggets of truth. Whichever way we look at statistics he has a point that Europe needs to spend more on defence.

There is an opportunity to provide work, training and opportunity to young people through a career in the military. I don’t want to generalise about an entire generation but I do see a lack of resilience in the younger guys at work. Resilience that can be achieved through sports, camping, rock climbing, playing an instrument. Often expensive hobbies that are missing from many people’s lives. It’s not for everyone but plenty benefit from a career in the armed forces.

 

We're saying this from the position of men in their 40s and upwards. We've hardly had our characters forged through immense hardship, have we? 

 

There's a big difference between encouraging a hobby and forcing someone to spend a few years in the army. Plenty might enjoy it, but it could also destroy the mental health and futures of others who struggle to adapt to a rigid system. That's before you consider those people who are injured, maimed or killed while in service.

 

It's also investing in 20th century tech in a 21st century war. More money on traditional defence is effectively escalatory. You invest in tech and weapons which encourages our "enemies" (I use the quote marks as I don't see Russia or China launching a land war against the UK anytime soon) to do the same. In the end, nobody wins. We end up with equipment we can't use. Like most of our intercontinental ballistic and nuclear missiles which we can't use without permission of the US.

 

Why does Trump want it? Spending more money on traditional defence capabilities means sending more money to Trump in a lot of cases. That's great for the US, but bad news for our safety and the safety of the world. 

 

Boots on the ground are less important (to us, at least) than strong digital protection and capabilities, which is where our investment should go to. The reality is that this is, to you and I, the biggest threat to us and our way of life. 

 

If Keir said we're going to spend billions on training a whole generation of tech literate kids who can protect the UK I'd support that. More guns and bombs? Nope.

 

 

 

 

[tegs07]

5 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

We're saying this from the position of men in their 40s and upwards. We've hardly had our characters forged through immense hardship, have we? 

 

There's a big difference between encouraging a hobby and forcing someone to spend a few years in the army. Plenty might enjoy it, but it could also destroy the mental health and futures of others who struggle to adapt to a rigid system. That's before you consider those people who are injured, maimed or killed while in service.

 

It's also investing in 20th century tech in a 21st century war. More money on traditional defence is effectively escalatory. You invest in tech and weapons which encourages our "enemies" (I use the quote marks as I don't see Russia or China launching a land war against the UK anytime soon) to do the same. In the end, nobody wins. We end up with equipment we can't use. Like most of our intercontinental ballistic and nuclear missiles which we can't use without permission of the US.

 

Why does Trump want it? Spending more money on traditional defence capabilities means sending more money to Trump in a lot of cases. That's great for the US, but bad news for our safety and the safety of the world. 

 

Boots on the ground are less important (to us, at least) than strong digital protection and capabilities, which is where our investment should go to. The reality is that this is, to you and I, the biggest threat to us and our way of life. 

 

If Keir said we're going to spend billions on training a whole generation of tech literate kids who can protect the UK I'd support that. More guns and bombs? Nope.

 

 

 

 

Who said anything about forcing?

Im from several generations who have benefited from careers in the armed services and have left with careers in trades, telecommunications, IT, catering and even music having been in the royal marines band.

All things that their peers in deprived areas of northern cities did not have the opportunity to gain.

Edited 10 hours ago by tegs07

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Who said anything about forcing?

Im from several generations who have benefited from careers in the armed services and have left with careers in trades, telecommunications, IT, catering and even music having been in the royal marines band.

All things that their peers in deprived areas of northern cities did not have the opportunity to gain.

 

Half my family were in the armed services as well.

 

Did you join?

 

(If people want to sign up, they can visit this: https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/careers-advice/careers-in-the-armed-forces/)

 

[Burns-bass]

I was making a glib point but as soon as you get any men over a certain age, we start talking about how young people today lack the resilience, strength and fortitude of our generation. We'll mythologise about how hard we had it and how our successes have all been due to our hard work. 

 

That's great, but it's fundamentally nonsense. Every generation think it had it easier than our parents and harder than our kids.

 

Personally, I reckon young people who succeed today are doing so in a much more complex, challenging and difficult world than I grew up in. 

 

[tegs07]

50 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

 

Half my family were in the armed services as well.

 

Did you join?

 

(If people want to sign up, they can visit this: https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/careers-advice/careers-in-the-armed-forces/)

 

Nope

I would classify myself as a pacifist. I am also a realist.

I definitely think younger people are suffering today for a plethora of reasons. There are pressures placed upon them (some real, some imagined) that my generation didn’t have. A couple of decades of austerity, covid lockdowns and, cost of living pressures etc have played a toll. I am hearing the lack of resilience issues from teachers, recruiters, mental health professionals, councillors and the message is feeding through into the political arena.

 

Providing opportunities in all their guises should not be dismissed outright. The military is not just guns and bombs. For many generations it was an escape.

The military budgets have been slashed for decades. Joining up now is not so desirable because of this. Investing in the military and in young people joining the military is an option that should be considered.

Edited 9 hours ago by tegs07

[Burns-bass]

4 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Nope

I would classify myself as a pacifist. I am also a realist.

I definitely think younger people are suffering today for a plethora of reasons. There are pressures placed upon them (some real, some imagined) that my generation didn’t have. A couple of decades of austerity, covid lockdowns and, cost of living pressures etc have played a toll. I am hearing the lack of resilience issues from teachers, recruiters, mental health professionals, councillors and the message is feeding through into the political arena.

 

Providing opportunities in all their guises should not be dismissed outright. The military is not just guns and bombs. For many generations it was an escape.

I get your point and I agree. I think a modern military that focused on the real dangers we face would be a worthwhile investment. 
 

Side question. How would you define resilience?

 

I’ve heard the phrase a lot but I guess it’s a loaded term. Could mean lots of different things.

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

I get your point and I agree. I think a modern military that focused on the real dangers we face would be a worthwhile investment. 
 

Side question. How would you define resilience?

 

I’ve heard the phrase a lot but I guess it’s a loaded term. Could mean lots of different things.

For me resilience is finding strength in failure. We all fail every day. Having the strength to pick yourself back up, not get discouraged but learn from the experience. 

 

Sports, music and all the soft skills many governments slash budgets for and don’t prioritise are crucial for building resilience.

[neepheid]

So, how about these tariffs, eh?

[tegs07]

42 minutes ago, neepheid said:

So, how about these tariffs, eh?

it’s all linked. as has already been suggested the tariffs are part of a bluff, bully, bluster tactic.

 

i expect part of this process is hey EU were going to impose x% tariff on you. Several phone calls and compromises later they are “paused”.

I expect increased NATO spending is on the agenda for those lists of demands.

[Burns-bass]

5 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

it’s all linked. as has already been suggested the tariffs are part of a bluff, bully, bluster tactic.

 

i expect part of this process is hey EU were going to impose x% tariff on you. Several phone calls and compromises later they are “paused”.

I expect increased NATO spending is on the agenda for those lists of demands.

100% agree.

 

Trumps success will be boosting the economy. Arms sales is a part of that and he’s doing his bit to increase them.

 

People laugh at him and call him mad but underneath it he’s a PR genius.

[TimR]

Sounds like a lot of posters spend more time reading the news than spending time with kids. 🙄

 

Lots of organisations are crying out for volunteers to teach kids the very skills that they seem to think kids lack.

[TimR]

5 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

People laugh at him and call him mad but underneath it he’s a PR genius.

 

You can fool some of the people some of the time...

 

Yesterday he proclaimed that the last trade deal that the US signed with Canada was terrible. The new one he has signed is a much better deal than the one the last president had signed.

 

The last president to sign a trade deal proclaimed it as the best deal ever signed by a president ever.

 

Way back in 2018. His name? Donald Trump.

 

The guy cant even remember what he did yesterday, let alone keep tabs on what other countries and sliding past him. 

[Burns-bass]

7 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

You can fool some of the people some of the time...

 

Yesterday he proclaimed that the last trade deal that the US signed with Canada was terrible. The new one he has signed is a much better deal than the one the last president had signed.

 

The last president to sign a trade deal proclaimed it as the best deal ever signed by a president ever.

 

Way back in 2018. His name? Donald Trump.

 

The guy cant even remember what he did yesterday, let alone keep tabs on what other countries and sliding past him. 

It’s all about optics.

 

If you have to get into the detail, you’ve already lost. 
 

He’s fundamentally changed politics (for the worse!) but you have to give it to the guy. He weaponises the media in a way others can’t by creating conflicts and solving them.
 

(Acknowledging his mastery of the media and his influence on world politics isn’t the same as endorsing it!)

[tegs07]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

Sounds like a lot of posters spend more time reading the news than spending time with kids. 🙄

 

Lots of organisations are crying out for volunteers to teach kids the very skills that they seem to think kids lack.

You don’t need to read the news to understand the impacts of things like youth clubs closing, budgets for extra curricula activities being slashed, the impact of covid lockdowns on school refusers and mental health.

These are real issues and the impact is feeding through into the workforce.I have friends that work exclusively teaching online to school refusers and teaching techniques for long term sick staff (stress, anxiety, mental health issues). It’s a real and escalating problem. Again this isn’t ALL kids, it’s not an entire generation. It’s a problem that is being identified and there are a number of solutions.

Edited 7 hours ago by tegs07

[Buddster]

Oh he's bored of taffifs now 

[ooh shiny... 🏃‍➡️]... Gazza strip into MAGA new Las Vegas-by-the-sea

[TimR]

8 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

youth clubs closing,

 

Why is that the government's job? That's the local community's job. 

[Burns-bass]

1 minute ago, TimR said:

 

Why is that the government's job? That's the local community's job. 

 

Funding.

 

I'm on the board of a couple of charities and access to funding is so challenging now. It's probably the worst environment I've experienced. 

 

Volunteers do an incredible job, but you need money for certain things.

[tegs07]

17 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

Why is that the government's job? That's the local community's job. 

Government’s Youth Investment Fund?

If you don’t invest in your roads you get broken roads. If you don’t invest in your youth you get a broken workforce. Productivity in the UK is shocking and wages are not covering costs. 

All going off topic but there’s a link to tariffs and trump in the replies.

Edited 7 hours ago by tegs07

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

He’s fundamentally changed politics (for the worse!) but you have to give it to the guy. He weaponises the media in a way others can’t by creating conflicts and solving them.

 

 

Why give Trump credit for anything? He hasn't done anything that deserves credit. He lacks any scrap of integrity, knows nothing, lies about everything and threatens those who tell the truth.

 

Name one conflict he's solved.

 

He hasn't weaponized  the media, he's bullied them into submission, like the GOP and now the various departments of Government. Soon there will be no independent media and the independence of the Police and other law enforcing bodies is looking precarious. 

 

There is not one positive thing that's come out of Trump's existence. He's in the process of throwing thousands of people out of work, denying millions healthcare and destroying treaties and pacts around the world. He word, and unfortunately now the word of America, is worth nothing.

 

Don't give Trump credit until he's done something that deserves it.

 

[Woodinblack]

31 minutes ago, chris_b said:

There is not one positive thing that's come out of Trump's existence. He's in the process of throwing thousands of people out of work, denying millions healthcare and destroying treaties and pacts around the world.

 

Im hoping we get some good music out of it...

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Im hoping we get some good music out of it...

is he the biggliest bass player in the history of music?

[prowla]

Well, an economy with a well-paid workforce is always going to find it difficult to compete with a sweatshop-based one which is arguably trading unfairly.