Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[Russ]

2 minutes ago, prowla said:

 

You're right that it is a tax on consumers, but it is one which impacts trade.

 

The gist of it is that Trump wants to make the US (steel) companies more viable, so increasing the cost of their competitors products by 25% might do that.

If the US producers can bring their product in at less than that actual+25% then they may get the business.

Then, over time, the companies may be sufficiently active as to reduce their costs and so become genuinely competitive.

The background though is that China was dumping steel onto the global market at below cost, so even being able to meet that +25% cost might be tricky.

 

The reason for retaliation is simply if a country is blocking sales of your products into their markets but you aren't reciprocating, then you're accepting an impact on your exports whilst welcoming their imports.

For example, the UK sells a lot of luxury cars into the US and they've suddenly got 25% more expensive; therefore sales will go down.

Meanwhile, the US sells Teslas into the UK but their price stays the same, so no impact on sales (bar by personal choice).

Result = a negative impact on the balance of trade.

Now, if the UK imposes a 25% tariff on the US cars, then they suddenly jump by 25% and so people at home are more likely to buy the UK-made ones.

 

Net result is tariffs are a form of protectionism which can boost home trade.

 

A lot depends on quality though - the cheap Chinese steel is rubbish. Sufficient for many things, but not for anything where high strength, etc is important. It may be possible for steel mills in the US to be able to churn out crappy steel of a similar quality to Chinese steel for not much more money. But the good stuff - that's a bigger ask. Canadian and British steel are very high quality, and are preferred for applications where high strength or thermal performance is important. Most American steel mills are not tooled up for that, and it would take a long time for them to do so, and at significant expense, so their product would be correspondingly more expensive.

 

What's more, many of the raw materials for steelmaking still need to be imported since they're not found in the US. For instance, the US has an abundance of iron ore, but has to import almost all the chromium used for making stainless steel. It has small chromite reserves in Alaska but they're close to being exhausted and there are no other domestic sources. Other alloys added to steel (vanadium, molybdenum, etc) are also not found in the US. 

 

And that's just steel. The US has very little in the way of capacity for aluminium production, with most of it coming from Canada. Less than 2% of the bauxite used to make aluminium in the US came from the US, with the rest having to be imported, mostly also from Canada. 

[SumOne]

5 minutes ago, martthebass said:

The most interesting aspect, I find is the human factor.  The Canadians in particular are showing that they will suffer economic hardship and choice by boycotting US goods, whether this is sustainable in the longer term is debatable but I'm not sure if the Trump administration has bargained on a strong response from individuals in those countries he is directly targetting.  From a personal point of view, at the moment if I really wanted an EBMM would I buy a Status instead.....probably not but the situation is sufficient to make me delay my decision to buy which still affects cash flow to the US.

 

Even without consciously going as far as boycotting, I think just subconsciously people will be a getting a bit less inclined to buy a product like a Rickenbacker that has a big selling point of 'made in the USA',  it starts to have certain new un-cool connotations with that USA flag sticker stuck on your Bass.  

[Russ]

2 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

Even without consciously going as far as boycotting, I think just subconsciously people will be a getting a bit less inclined to buy a product like a Rickenbacker that has a big selling point of 'made in the USA',  it starts to have certain new un-cool connotations with that USA flag sticker stuck on your Bass.  

From what I could gather from a company-wide meeting the other day, that seems to be happening with my employer (large, long-established American acoustic guitar manufacturer). Sales have slumped significantly outside the US and are quite flat within the US. It's not just the US-made stuff that's suffering either (about three-quarters of our products are made in Mexico), it's the brand in general since it's perceived as American. Makes me worry a bit about my job. 

 

Goodness knows what they're thinking at Fender or Gibson right now...

 

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, SumOne said:

I think just subconsciously people will be a getting a bit less inclined to buy a product like a Rickenbacker that has a big selling point of 'made in the USA',  it starts to have certain new un-cool connotations with that USA flag sticker stuck on your Bass.  

 

TBH - I have a rickenbacker, and at no point was there a selling point of 'made in the USA'. Any flag that may have existed would be removed, although that isn't unique, I hate stickers.

 

I do agree, in the short term it makes the 'made in USA' a bit of a toxic branding and if it doesn't turn around it will be more of a long term thing. I would think this is more of an issue in canada as I can't really think of many US imports here, apart from Fenders and Teslas, neither of which I would be in the market for anyway. Unlike in the 70s-90s, I find I am having a hard time thinking of things that the US actually produces.

[oldslapper]

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I find I am having a hard time thinking of things that the US actually produces.

Production of hatred, division, lies, fear, uncertainty and toxicity is quite high presently. 
 

 

 

But I know what you mean. 

[NancyJohnson]

Trump is meeting with Irish PM/Taoiseach Michael Martin today.

 

I'm wondering whether there'll be some shoehorned in hack asking why he's not dressed up like a Leprechaun.

[SumOne]

11 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

TBH - I have a rickenbacker, and at no point was there a selling point of 'made in the USA'. Any flag that may have existed would be removed, although that isn't unique, I hate stickers.

 

I do agree, in the short term it makes the 'made in USA' a bit of a toxic branding and if it doesn't turn around it will be more of a long term thing. I would think this is more of an issue in canada as I can't really think of many US imports here, apart from Fenders and Teslas, neither of which I would be in the market for anyway. Unlike in the 70s-90s, I find I am having a hard time thinking of things that the US actually produces.

 

I suppose the ones off the top of my head make a big sales pitch or are very associated with 'Made in USA' are Fender, Rickenbacker, Bourbon, Harley Davidson, Levi's, Ralph Lauren, Tesla, Budweiser. Perhaps Apple and Ford to a lesser extent as they are so global.  I imagine all of those where part of their appeal is their Americanness could take a bit of a sales hit.

[Agent 00Soul]

I imagine that more companies will emphasise what states they come from. They do that at the end of tv/movies. “New York Mayor’s Office of Fim & Television,” the Georgia film peach, and from Canada, the Quebec flag etc

[EBS_freak]

26 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

I suppose the ones off the top of my head make a big sales pitch or are very associated with 'Made in USA' are Fender, Rickenbacker, Bourbon, Harley Davidson, Levi's, Ralph Lauren, Tesla, Budweiser. Perhaps Apple and Ford to a lesser extent as they are so global.  I imagine all of those where part of their appeal is their Americanness could take a bit of a sales hit.

Its interesting stuff, marketing - most of the goods mentioned are not tied to the USA (far from it!).

 

Budweiser - in the UK, it's brewed in Wales and Lancashire.

 

Harley Davidson - I don't think it actually manufactures anything in the USA. They are assembly shops. Thailand and Brazil seem to do the "assembly" outside of the USA. Can't see any manufacturing actually taking place in the USA.

 

Ralph Lauren UK - presumably takes care of all dealings inside the UK - they have manufacturers supplying them from all across the world.

 

Are Tesla uniquely "Made in USA"? The factories in Germany and China would suggest not. They'll be able to pivot to have a European arm no doubt (if they haven't already)

 

Anyway, you get the gist. Most of these American mega brands would actually seem to have very little to do with the USA apart from their heritage.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by EBS_freak

[Mrbigstuff]

On 11/03/2025 at 09:08, SteveXFR said:

What I don't get is people who complain about others getting a pay rise instead of asking why they're not getting one.

How much of the world’s wealth comes from employee pay packets?
The pay rises at my company are very much restricted by what is left after shareholders take their dividend increase and what profit margins have been achieved that year. Individual performance has almost nothing to do with it.

If Musk and Trump have proven anything it’s how much power shareholders wield in our global economy. Trump btw has shares in US oil. I wonder why he’s so keen to out tariffs on the Canadian stuff!

[Count Bassy]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

 Learned, surely!! 🙂

Not in British English!

[KingBollock]

59 minutes ago, oldslapper said:

Production of hatred, division, lies, fear, uncertainty and toxicity is quite high presently. 
 

 

 

But I know what you mean. 

Trump thinks that being a bully, a liar and a cheat is being clever. The trouble is that he’s very rich, the president of the USA and other mega rich people have bent the knee and are falling all over each other to prove their allegiance. So it looks like he’s right…

[Steve Browning]

37 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

Not in British English!

Quite so!! I stand corrected. 

[prowla]

51 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

Not in British English!

You mean not in English!

[Buddster]

“We have a problem with the European Union. They don’t take our farm products. They don’t take our cars. We take millions of cars, BMWs and Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagens and everything. We take millions of cars,” he said.

Referring to the former German chancellor Angela Merkel, he added:

I said to Angela Merkel at the time, I said, Angela, how many Chevrolets do we have in the middle of Munich? … None [she said] ... You’re right. We have none. That’s the way it is. We have none. No, I’m not happy with the European Union.

 

Someone needs to tell him EU food and cars are better than theirs! 

But looking at how tacky his towers are, it wouldn't make any difference. 

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

TBH - I have a rickenbacker, and at no point was there a selling point of 'made in the USA'. Any flag that may have existed would be removed, although that isn't unique, I hate stickers.

 

I do agree, in the short term it makes the 'made in USA' a bit of a toxic branding and if it doesn't turn around it will be more of a long term thing. I would think this is more of an issue in canada as I can't really think of many US imports here, apart from Fenders and Teslas, neither of which I would be in the market for anyway. Unlike in the 70s-90s, I find I am having a hard time thinking of things that the US actually produces.

Well, I have a number of US-made items and I'm not going to offload them.

And I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face (eg. I shop at CostCo because I got fed up of the main supermarkets shrinkflation and I'm not going to reverse that).

However, I will tend to steer away from buying US items (manufacturer or parent company) for the forseeable.

[Agent 00Soul]

31 minutes ago, prowla said:

You mean not in English!

Yeah, the people in Singapore really screw with our language. All their “la’s” after the direct article for example. No wonder people call it Singlish. 

[Geek99]

21 minutes ago, Buddster said:

“We have a problem with the European Union. They don’t take our farm products. They don’t take our cars. We take millions of cars, BMWs and Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagens and everything. We take millions of cars,” he said.

Referring to the former German chancellor Angela Merkel, he added:

I said to Angela Merkel at the time, I said, Angela, how many Chevrolets do we have in the middle of Munich? … None [she said] ... You’re right. We have none. That’s the way it is. We have none. No, I’m not happy with the European Union.

 

Someone needs to tell him EU food and cars are better than theirs! 

But looking at how tacky his towers are, it wouldn't make any difference. 

American cars are shi t though

[Geek99]

19 minutes ago, prowla said:

Well, I have a number of US-made items and I'm not going to offload them.

And I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face (eg. I shop at CostCo because I got fed up of the main supermarkets shrinkflation and I'm not going to reverse that).

However, I will tend to steer away from buying US items (manufacturer or parent company) for the forseeable.

I agree. I’ll still buy hovis and cakes at costco as it keeps British people in work but I won’t buy layzboy sofas or Frito lay, or American-sourced fruit 

Edited 1 hour ago by Geek99

[Obrienp]

I read in the Guardian that there is a movement to boycott US goods across Europe. As pointed out above this could be problematic as not many US brands sold in the UK are manufactured in the USA. However, it must damage the US holding companies if they get no revenue from their brands. How far do you take it though? Do we avoid Cadbury’s products because they are owned by Hershi (whose own chocolate smells of vomit by the way). What about Kraft Heinz, etc, etc? Incidentally, I’m writing this on an Apple product……. I am seriously considering getting rid of our Amazon accounts and all our Echo (Alexa) devices. Prime video is full of rubbish anyway but I would miss the convenience of Amazon shopping. Ditching Netflix, Apple TV and Disney + feels like a step too far. I’ve already ditched AirBnB (involved in DOGE). I could get by without buying any more US branded musical gear but I would miss my D’Addario strings.
 

The problem with exercising these consumer choices is that there are consequences for their employees in the UK. I doubt there will be much affect on tax revenue, they all seem to avoid paying their fare share of UK tax.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Obrienp

[SteveXFR]

43 minutes ago, Buddster said:

“We have a problem with the European Union. They don’t take our farm products. They don’t take our cars. We take millions of cars, BMWs and Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagens and everything. We take millions of cars,” he said.

Referring to the former German chancellor Angela Merkel, he added:

I said to Angela Merkel at the time, I said, Angela, how many Chevrolets do we have in the middle of Munich? … None [she said] ... You’re right. We have none. That’s the way it is. We have none. No, I’m not happy with the European Union.

 

Someone needs to tell him EU food and cars are better than theirs! 

But looking at how tacky his towers are, it wouldn't make any difference. 

 

Most American cars don't meet EU regulations while European cars are built to comply with regulations all around the world. American car manufacturers are free to do the same. 

Chevrolet have actually sold some models in Europe but they were terrible so no one bought them. Jeep do pretty well in Europe and Tesla did do well until recently. 

Harley Davidson do OK in Europe despite being terrible and expensive. 

[Obrienp]

23 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Most American cars don't meet EU regulations while European cars are built to comply with regulations all around the world. American car manufacturers are free to do the same. 

Chevrolet have actually sold some models in Europe but they were terrible so no one bought them. Jeep do pretty well in Europe and Tesla did do well until recently. 

Harley Davidson do OK in Europe despite being terrible and expensive. 

Agree. I think Jeep are part of Stellantis; does that count as American? However, by the same token, is a Range Rover British, or Indian?

Edited 48 minutes ago by Obrienp

[tegs07]

53 minutes ago, Buddster said:

“We have a problem with the European Union. They don’t take our farm products. They don’t take our cars. We take millions of cars, BMWs and Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagens and everything. We take millions of cars,” he said.

Referring to the former German chancellor Angela Merkel, he added:

I said to Angela Merkel at the time, I said, Angela, how many Chevrolets do we have in the middle of Munich? … None [she said] ... You’re right. We have none. That’s the way it is. We have none. No, I’m not happy with the European Union.

 

Someone needs to tell him EU food and cars are better than theirs! 

But looking at how tacky his towers are, it wouldn't make any difference. 

I take it he didn’t notice that every european office is using US technology, nor that every high street has US franchises, clothing chains etc nor glanced down at peoples feet and noticed the US brands. His incessant victim mentality and false accounting is getting very tedious.

[paul_5]

2 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Are Tesla uniquely "Made in USA"? The factories in Germany and China would suggest not. They'll be able to pivot to have a European arm no doubt (if they haven't already)

 

I think we've all seen quite enough of Musk's 'European arm' thank you very much!

[Russ]

8 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

I read in the Guardian that there is a movement to boycott US goods across Europe. As pointed out above this could be problematic as not many US brands sold in the UK are manufactured in the USA. However, it must damage the US holding companies if they get no revenue from their brands. How far do you take it though? Do we avoid Cadbury’s products because they are owned by Hershi (whose own chocolate smells of vomit by the way). What about Kraft Heinz, etc, etc? Incidentally, I’m writing this on an Apple product……. I am seriously considering getting rid of our Amazon accounts and all our Echo (Alexa) devices. Prime video is full of rubbish anyway but I would miss the convenience of Amazon shopping. Ditching Netflix, Apple TV and Disney + feels like a step too far. I’ve already ditched AirBnB (involved in DOGE). I could get by without buying any more US branded musical gear but I would miss my D’Addario strings.
 

The problem with exercising these consumer choices is that there are consequences for their employees in the UK. I doubt there will be much affect on tax revenue, they all seem to avoid paying their fare share of UK tax.

Cadbury is currently owned by Mondelez, which were spun off from Kraft. Hershey has the licence to produce Cadbury products for the US market, but that's all. So yes, American Cadbury chocolate is... not great. However, Cadbury still manufacture chocolate in Bournville (as well as in Poland, Ireland and a couple of other European locations) and the company is still mostly UK-run. 

 

Personally, I'd only boycott the products made in the US - most of the brands you mentioned are made by companies headquartered in the US, but who manufacture their goods outside the US, with only a portion of the profits ending up there.