Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[Russ]

12 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

Agree. I think Jeep are part of Stelantis; does that count as American? However, by the same token, is a Range Rover British, or Indian?

Stellantis are multinational, but they're headquartered in the Netherlands. Italy and France are the two largest countries in terms of brand ownership. Only a few of their brands are even available in the US - Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Fiat and Alfa Romeo.

 

 

 

[80Hz]

I think the issue with boycotts is - who really gets punished? I have no desire to see brands such as Fender damaged - for me they represent the best of America. These are products we want to buy (well, ha, that's another debate right?) I don't want the skilled people who work there to lose their jobs. Skilled people aren't easily replaceable. So I do feel for companies such as @Russ's mysterious employer who have done absolutely nothing wrong and for whom Trump is as much of a nightmare as for everyone else.

 

Which is why retaliatory tariffs really is the best way because it's first and foremost a demonstration of power. The Trump administration needs to learn that they are not the only ones that can exert power. Learning is hard, and sometimes painful.

[prowla]

8 minutes ago, Russ said:

Cadbury is currently owned by Mondelez, which were spun off from Kraft. Hershey has the licence to produce Cadbury products for the US market, but that's all. So yes, American Cadbury chocolate is... not great. However, Cadbury still manufacture chocolate in Bournville (as well as in Poland, Ireland and a couple of other European locations) and the company is still mostly UK-run. 

 

Personally, I'd only boycott the products made in the US - most of the brands you mentioned are made by companies headquartered in the US, but who manufacture their goods outside the US, with only a portion of the profits ending up there.

 

Thanks for the info re. Cadbury's - I thought it was Hersheys.

However, the products have gone downhill (and the tins/tubs have shrunk), so I haven't had any for a while.

[Beer of the Bass]

I bought a (pre-owned) Gibson acoustic guitar last year, I'm hoping that doesn't get interpreted by anyone as flying the flag for the current regime. The lower end of their acoustic line gets enough shade thrown at it online as it is! 

I didn't really have any romantic ideas about American guitars being the real deal or whatever, this was just one I liked within my budget.

Edited 3 hours ago by Beer of the Bass

[prowla]

5 minutes ago, 80Hz said:

I think the issue with boycotts is - who really gets punished? I have no desire to see brands such as Fender damaged - for me they represent the best of America. These are products we want to buy (well, ha, that's another debate right?) I don't want the skilled people who work there to lose their jobs. Skilled people aren't easily replaceable. So I do feel for companies such as @Russ's mysterious employer who have done absolutely nothing wrong and for whom Trump is as much of a nightmare as for everyone else.

 

Which is why retaliatory tariffs really is the best way because it's first and foremost a demonstration of power. The Trump administration needs to learn that they are not the only ones that can exert power. Learning is hard, and sometimes painful.

Well, presumably the people working there are voters and had their say in the election.

But yes: macro-economics has impacts at the micro level.

[80Hz]

2 minutes ago, prowla said:

Well, presumably the people working there are voters and had their say in the election.

 

 

I mean, that's valid, I can't argue with that. I'm conflicted really, because I know nothing will be learned if no-one hurts. But I also have sympathy for the many non-Trump voters who will lose their shirts.

[Obrienp]

Hmm, thinking through the implications of the posts a few pages back about steel and aluminium: the US doesn’t have indigenously produced aerospace quality steel and very little aluminium, so will their aerospace industry by obliged to continue using imported materials at a 25% premium? If so, does this mean that Airbus is going to become more price competitive globally? Perhaps not the outcome Trump was thinking of.

 

P.S. I know this a bit simplistic and a lot of composite materials are used in the aerospace industry but there must be a cost impact on Boeing, et al’s manufacturing costs, which will transfer through to pricing (or they have to take a big hit on their profits).

Edited 2 hours ago by Obrienp

[SteveXFR]

47 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

Agree. I think Jeep are part of Stellantis; does that count as American? However, by the same token, is a Range Rover British, or Indian?

 

Range Rover is British engineering and manufacturing owned by Indian investors. 

[Buddster]

1 hour ago, Geek99 said:

American cars are shi t though

Someone needs to show him a few episodes of Top Gear

[Russ]

31 minutes ago, 80Hz said:

I think the issue with boycotts is - who really gets punished? I have no desire to see brands such as Fender damaged - for me they represent the best of America. These are products we want to buy (well, ha, that's another debate right?) I don't want the skilled people who work there to lose their jobs. Skilled people aren't easily replaceable. So I do feel for companies such as @Russ's mysterious employer who have done absolutely nothing wrong and for whom Trump is as much of a nightmare as for everyone else.

I'm just being careful not to directly mention them, as then I become a "voice of the company" and become liable for what I say!  Let's just say Johnny Cash, Eric Clapton and Elvis used to play them, they're headquartered in Nazareth, Pennsylvania, and their name rhymes with "fartin'". Should be enough to dispel the mystery! 

 

 

[80Hz]

Just now, Russ said:

I'm just being careful not to directly mention them, as then I become a "voice of the company" and become liable for what I say!  Let's just say Johnny Cash, Eric Clapton and Elvis used to play them, they're headquartered in Nazareth, Pennsylvania, and their name rhymes with "fartin'". Should be enough to dispel the mystery! 

 

Oh, I wasn't trying to out you! It was a pretty clear mystery 😄  But you made the point a few pages ago about how, internally, for, let's say, "heritage" brands this is a disaster. My point is that, personally, I don't really see the sense in targeting good products that people actually want to buy. It won't punish the people who are most directly responsible for this, because they have a wealth level where, essentially, there are no consequences.

[SteveXFR]

21 minutes ago, Buddster said:

Someone needs to show him a few episodes of Top Gear

 

The America special where they "decorate" each others cars? Or more recently the Grand Tour Scotland special where they demonstrated that a Hillman Imp was faster around a track than an 8 litre American V8 and also that America made worse cars than communists

[Geek99]

39 minutes ago, Buddster said:

Someone needs to show him a few episodes of Top Gear

Thanks but I’m allergic to anything that includes Jeremy Clarkson, or has previously done so

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Obrienp said:

Hmm, thinking through the implications of the posts a few pages back about steel and aluminium: the US doesn’t have indigenously produced aerospace quality steel and very little aluminium, so will their aerospace industry by obliged to continue using imported materials at a 25% premium? If so, does this mean that Airbus is going to become more price competitive globally? Perhaps not the outcome Trump was thinking of.

 

P.S. I know this a bit simplistic and a lot of composite materials are used in the aerospace industry but there must be a cost impact on Boeing, et al’s manufacturing costs, which will transfer through to pricing (or they have to take a big hit on their profits).

So, you’re saying that Trump has put the kybosh on the US aero industry?
Oops!

[Agent 00Soul]

What about video games? Most non-Japanese games are designed in multiple English speaking countries: studios in the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and India are often working on different parts of the same game simultaneously no matter where there head office is. 

[Obrienp]

1 hour ago, Russ said:

I'm just being careful not to directly mention them, as then I become a "voice of the company" and become liable for what I say!  Let's just say Johnny Cash, Eric Clapton and Elvis used to play them, they're headquartered in Nazareth, Pennsylvania, and their name rhymes with "fartin'". Should be enough to dispel the mystery! 

 

 

I’ve had the pleasure of owning two of their/your products: a 0-15 Westside Special (UK importer special), which I really regret selling and a D28P (never gelled but a great guitar). Wishful thinking perhaps but I somehow believe the management are not Trump supporters. Please don’t disillusion me. I hope your job is safe.

[oldslapper]

Make America Globally Alienated 

[Downunderwonder]

8 hours ago, SumOne said:

Just let the USA companies/consumers pay the tariffs (taxes they pay by importing) that their government choose to set. No need for retaliation and adding costs for consumers elsewhere. That seems to have been the UK response so far.

Aussie PM said same yesterday. "No point in us boosting inflation."

 

NZ PM "It’s disappointing".

 

That would be great if the whole world went along and the only inflation figures going up and up were the US.

 

Canadians not buying American is going to hurt. They will be making their own furniture with some of the lumber they are not selling to Americans who were turning it into furniture and selling some back to them.

[Downunderwonder]

55 minutes ago, prowla said:

So, you’re saying that Trump has put the kybosh on the US aero industry?
Oops!

My WAG is the value of aluminum ingots going in wouldn't be 5% of the value of a plane rolling out.

[SteveXFR]

3 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

My WAG is the value of aluminum ingots going in wouldn't be 5% of the value of a plane rolling out.

 

Exactly. It's the processing of the materials that makes up most of the cost. It's not simple stampings and castings like your car.

[Russ]

47 minutes ago, Obrienp said:

I’ve had the pleasure of owning two of their/your products: a 0-15 Westside Special (UK importer special), which I really regret selling and a D28P (never gelled but a great guitar). Wishful thinking perhaps but I somehow believe the management are not Trump supporters. Please don’t disillusion me. I hope your job is safe.

Everyone here hates his guts right now because of all this. Even the Pennsyltucky types, of whom there’s a fair few on the factory floor. 

 

There’s a new cutaway mini-bass coming out very soon, by the way… it’s quite nice. Here’s a little bit of it shown off by yours truly…