Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[Staggering on]

25 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

Nope.

 

...and that is all part of the master plan.

[Pseudonym]

27 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

Nope.

 

It depends where you look. There is plenty of substantive discussion in specialist journals, on specialist sites etc. The three main networks, the newspapers with national circulation, and the cable news channels are also reporting events on a daily basis, including reports from emergency court hearings. All of these are readily available, certainly to people who live in the US. The Wall Street Journal reports and opines on tariffs, and little of that coverage is sympathetic to the administration.

 

As for questions related to the rule of law, those of us in search of something a little more sophisticated than the standards of political bickering can find plenty of discussion that covers such issues as the responsibilities of (and constraints on) the military; the underlying economic conditions that bolster specific arguments for tariffs, but against the administrations execution of trade policy; various scenarios for tilting the judiciary, and the nature of the safeguards that might be activated under specific conditions; and the terms on which individual states might constrain aspects of federal policy. Those are just some of the topics I have read online, from the comfort of my peaceful New York neighbourhood, in the last two weeks.

 

If you think those of us with skin in the game have no means of finding out about these topics, you are mistaken.

[binky_bass]

5 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

 

It depends where you look. There is plenty of substantive discussion in specialist journals, on specialist sites etc. The three main networks, the newspapers with national circulation, and the cable news channels are also reporting events on a daily basis, including reports from emergency court hearings. All of these are readily available, certainly to people who live in the US. The Wall Street Journal reports and opines on tariffs, and little of that coverage is sympathetic to the administration.

 

As for questions related to the rule of law, those of us in search of something a little more sophisticated than the standards of political bickering can find plenty of discussion that covers such issues as the responsibilities of (and constraints on) the military; the underlying economic conditions that bolster specific arguments for tariffs, but against the administrations execution of trade policy; various scenarios for tilting the judiciary, and the nature of the safeguards that might be activated under specific conditions; and the terms on which individual states might constrain aspects of federal policy. Those are just some of the topics I have read online, from the comfort of my peaceful New York neighbourhood, in the last two weeks.

 

If you think those of us with skin in the game have no means of finding out about these topics, you are mistaken.

The issue is 'what is visible to the average person'. I agree that with the right eyes you can see the wood for the trees, but the average person is lazy and skim-reads headlines and easy to access articles - these are dominantly bias and therefore public opinion becomes bias. 

[Pseudonym]

33 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

The issue is 'what is visible to the average person'. I agree that with the right eyes you can see the wood for the trees, but the average person is lazy and skim-reads headlines and easy to access articles - these are dominantly bias and therefore public opinion becomes bias. 

 

If that is true, perhaps people really do get the politicians they deserve. I am not sure that substantive discussions of long-term policy consequences can be reconciled with inattentive consumption of news sources -- I seem to remember a certain democratic event in the UK that illustrated this -- but those discussions are readily available. Reporting on the administration reflects that. I suppose posters on buses might be worth trying...

 

One question that might arise in the coming months and years is whether a form of multi-tier democracy becomes firmly established -- the kind where some people, usually those with economic or political privileges, simply have more meaningful enumerated democratic rights than most people enjoy. (I say "enumerated" because there are always disparities in these things, but usually not in a codified form.) Perhaps the majority of American voters will have to decide whether they are willing to have fewer rights than a privileged minority, and for that situation to become set in stone. In the end, however, it is down to the American electorate to protect the perks of democracy or else lose them. An informed electorate is best placed to protect itself, but no one can force voters to absorb the information. If people are hypnotised by charisma rather than persuaded by evidence, there are few solutions -- merely hard lessons.

Edited Tuesday at 20:13 by Pseudonym

[Beer of the Bass]

51 minutes ago, Buddster said:

Very true. And in fact, he is the current holder of the Club Championship at all 18 of his golf courses. 

Quite the player

 

Not much different than Musk's alleged gaming record, then. It amazes me that these people are so insecure as to need the ego boost of an obviously bogus win.

[Lozz196]

Wasn’t it Idi Amin who was world heavyweight boxing champion and held the world record for the 100 metres? 

[chris_b]

48 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

The issue is 'what is visible to the average person'. . . .

 

It seems that the average republican voter gets what little news they consume from places like Fox News.

 

There is next to no critical thinking going on in those voters. They are convinced that Biden is a crook and immigrants really were eating pets.

[Delberthot]

It's interesting reading the different US media outlet articles - according to Fox he's the new messiah but to MSNBC he's the spawn of Beelzebub. It's hard trying to find a balance. Then again no different to covid when trying to find the voice of reason.

 

Trouble is that he thinks he's a king where in fact he's a public servant, voted for by the public to serve the public. He's that guy down the pub who has really strong views on what we should do to fix the world despite being as bright as 2 o'clock in the morning and they made him president 🤔

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:

 

It depends where you look. There is plenty of substantive discussion in specialist journals, on specialist sites etc. The three main networks, the newspapers with national circulation, and the cable news channels are also reporting events on a daily basis, including reports from emergency court hearings. All of these are readily available, certainly to people who live in the US. The Wall Street Journal reports and opines on tariffs, and little of that coverage is sympathetic to the administration.

 

As for questions related to the rule of law, those of us in search of something a little more sophisticated than the standards of political bickering can find plenty of discussion that covers such issues as the responsibilities of (and constraints on) the military; the underlying economic conditions that bolster specific arguments for tariffs, but against the administrations execution of trade policy; various scenarios for tilting the judiciary, and the nature of the safeguards that might be activated under specific conditions; and the terms on which individual states might constrain aspects of federal policy. Those are just some of the topics I have read online, from the comfort of my peaceful New York neighbourhood, in the last two weeks.

 

If you think those of us with skin in the game have no means of finding out about these topics, you are mistaken.

That's a relief.

 

Last night "our man in Washington" put in his report before being interviewed by the presenters. He is covering our Foreign Minister making is introductions to the new administration. Pacific Aid and Trade being the big concerns but we are also involved in Ukraine.

 

A literal couple of lone protestesters got significant airtime on NZ evening news to protest the "takeover of the US government by the Executive". There better be more going on than that!!!!!

[Agent 00Soul]

2 hours ago, Obrienp said:

I can’t imagine that there will be many countries rushing to give money to the biggest economy in the world, or are you implying that it will have dropped down the rankings dramatically? The trouble is most of the other major economies are not in great shape as it is and if the USA fails, it will drag down most of the developed world with it. You might be looking to the BRICS nations and they don’t have a lot of love for the USA, except of course the Russian Federation but their economy isn’t is doing too well either at the moment.

 

Yes, it will have dropped down the rankings dramatically.  As for love, there probably wasn't much love for postwar Germany or Italy either, but they still got the Marshall Plan.

[TimR]

Things will very quickly gather critical mass.

 

Federal judges are ruling against him and Musk on various policies. 

 

It's going to become very hard for him soon. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/mar/18/donald-trump-venezuela-deportations-white-house-immigration-us-politics-live

 

[Agent 00Soul]

3 hours ago, tegs07 said:

There doesn’t seem to be a lot of in-depth coverage about the changes taking place, possible long term implications nor what is happening in terms of due process. Maybe it’s being covered in greater depth in the US.

 

The New York Times has created an entire new section for it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/03/18/us/trump-president-news

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/us/trump-agenda-2025.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/02/11/us/politics/trump-musk-doge-federal-workers.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/07/us/trump-federal-agencies-websites-words-dei.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/11/us/politics/trump-50-days-foreign-policy.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/polls/donald-trump-approval-rating-polls.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/us/trump-administration-lawsuits.html

 

 

[Geek99]

3 hours ago, Buddster said:

Very true. And in fact, he is the current holder of the Club Championship at all 18 of his golf courses. 

Quite the player

He is my hero

seriously has anyone read Mary trumps book? He commended his own niece on having “a fine rack” (as in being chesty) #ultraweird

 

Edited Tuesday at 22:50 by Geek99

[Geek99]

56 minutes ago, TimR said:

Things will very quickly gather critical mass.

 

Federal judges are ruling against him and Musk on various policies. 

 

It's going to become very hard for him soon. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/mar/18/donald-trump-venezuela-deportations-white-house-immigration-us-politics-live

 

I suspect his complaint will be “these people don’t like me”, possibly because he’s a c nut who sold Ukraine out, and possibly because he sold out everyone who ever voted  for him #arabamericans 

 

 

[tauzero]

10 hours ago, tegs07 said:

Chin up all. Generally the approval rating and re-election prospects of any politician or party hang upon its economic performance.

 

When was the last time that a dictatorship relied on re-election?

[tegs07]

8 hours ago, Agent 00Soul said:

 

The New York Times has created an entire new section for it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/03/18/us/trump-president-news

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/us/trump-agenda-2025.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/02/11/us/politics/trump-musk-doge-federal-workers.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/07/us/trump-federal-agencies-websites-words-dei.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/11/us/politics/trump-50-days-foreign-policy.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/polls/donald-trump-approval-rating-polls.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/us/trump-administration-lawsuits.html

 

 

sadly behind a paywall but good to know 

[tegs07]

5 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

When was the last time that a dictatorship relied on re-election?

the usa is some way off being a dictatorship despite the fantasy of the donald. hopefully he and musk will soon be tied up in legal proceedings and people will wake up to the fact that rather than tackling the cost of living they are getting poorer by the day.

[binky_bass]

44 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

the usa is some way off being a dictatorship despite the fantasy of the donald. hopefully he and musk will soon be tied up in legal proceedings and people will wake up to the fact that rather than tackling the cost of living they are getting poorer by the day.

People won't. It's like trying to convince someone God doesn't exist - once they're a believer it's almost impossible to convince someone otherwise despite all evidence. Heels get dug in. 

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, binky_bass said:

People won't. It's like trying to convince someone God doesn't exist - once they're a believer it's almost impossible to convince someone otherwise despite all evidence. Heels get dug in. 

As far as I understand things there are the MAGA fanatics that believe the hype but the biggest boost to Trump’s campaign was that ordinary voters believed the lie that Biden wrecked the economy. The Democrat campaign was big on social issues that didn’t resonate with the electorate who were more concerned about their precarious economic situation. Tariffs and unstable policies, threats, u-turns, lay offs, talking down any stimulus, ignoring wall street etc from what I understand is killing consumer confidence and making it impossible for businesses to plan or invest. The US economy was in good shape and will take a while to turn but most indicators are not good. 

Let’s wait and see but IMO the bullshit will get less palatable when the economy gets worse.

[binky_bass]

I do hope you're right as there is nothing I would love to see more than Trump and Musk go up in flames - literally or figuratively. 

 

Reading some extracts of the Rick Reilly book 'Commander In Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump' really gives you a good flavour of the quite unbelievable personality disorder the man has. 

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, binky_bass said:

I do hope you're right as there is nothing I would love to see more than Trump and Musk go up in flames - literally or figuratively. 

 

Reading some extracts of the Rick Reilly book 'Commander In Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump' really gives you a good flavour of the quite unbelievable personality disorder the man has. 

We can only hope but my take is that anyone trying to force through a strategy that last worked in an age before globalisation, that not only ignores but actively silences voices from people and institutions with decades of experience, that ignores the law, that bullies and intimidates its friends and gets bedazzled by its enemies will make one unholy mess.

 

[TimR]

17 minutes ago, binky_bass said:

People won't. It's like trying to convince someone God doesn't exist - once they're a believer it's almost impossible to convince someone otherwise despite all evidence. Heels get dug in. 

 

Yes, if you confront them with facts and the truth, they will avoid accepting anything that goes against their beliefs.

 

The way to change their minds is through emotions. And when they're out on the streets and their freinds are losing their jobs they do become upset and realise they've been lied to. And then they will turn on Trump. He better be prepared for that. 

[Agent 00Soul]

2 hours ago, tegs07 said:

sadly behind a paywall but good to know 

Democracy Now! and WNYC are also good and free. 
 

https://www.democracynow.org/topics/donald_trump

 

https://www.wnyc.org

 

The problem is that reading any of this can get you treated as a disinformed, effeminate clown at best and traitorous at worse, especially by teenage and 20-something males. But eff them. 

 

 

[tegs07]

5 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

Democracy Now! and WNYC are also good and free. 
 

https://www.democracynow.org/topics/donald_trump

 

https://www.wnyc.org

 

The problem is that reading any of this can get you treated as a disinformed, effeminate clown at best and traitorous at worse, especially by teenage and 20-something males. But eff them. 

 

 

I think this must be very state specific. I can’t believe that the youth of America has entirely abandoned critical thinking?

[tegs07]

I see the peace talks went well then. Yes we will have a ceasefire if you tie up the bloke we mugged and put a blind fold on him. Oh and sure we won’t bomb any infrastructure (during this phone call).

 

Mugged off?