Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[tegs07]

58 minutes ago, Buddster said:

I know we're generally focusing on the tariffs and Russia here, but what is happening in US while that is going on is just as important. At least to Americans it is. 

The level of corruption and self servitude trump has implemented is quite astonishing. In six weeks! 

And his maga followers will love it because it makes the woke pussy leftards weep.

 

 

 

Not being American I am not sure of the context or audience for this presentation. Looks like some big and relevant information being presented to an empty room with some very disinterested and not particularly influential people in the audience?

[prowla]

30 minutes ago, TimR said:

Obviously if you have no morals you don't have to justify anything. 

 

Every action you carryout has an impact on someone or something. 

 

The laws of physics say that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Putting up tariffs is not just something that the US does to other nations.

The behaviour of the boss of Tesla discourages people from buying the product.

[Buddster]

59 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Not being American I am not sure of the context or audience for this presentation. Looks like some big and relevant information being presented to an empty room with some very disinterested and not particularly influential people in the audience?

Well, it's a Senator speaking on the US Senate floor. So don't expect whopping and whistles. And it's pretty influential. 

Imagine Lord suchandsuch standing up in the House of Lords calling out the government for being corrupt. 

 

[Buddster]

This isn't trump or maga related, but it is in the US and just had to share it. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/21/alison-lawrence-drowned-dog-florida-airport

 

My gob is still smacked.... 

[Agent 00Soul]

3 hours ago, Buddster said:

And his maga followers will love it because it makes the woke pussy leftards weep.

 

This is still the main point of MAGA. We have been getting into the weeds with tariffs and foreign policy, but for the true believers, this is what gets them out of bed in the morning. If you read some stuff on Quora, it’s quite clear that the end goal is to reduce the opposition to the role it has in Orban’s Hungary. And also to change the narrative to the point that no one would dare claim to being a liberal in public for fear of a beat down and social ostracism. But it’s an emotional thing more than anything else. They want their revenge and they want it to hurt. 

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

This is still the main point of MAGA. We have been getting into the weeds with tariffs and foreign policy, but for the true believers, this is what gets them out of bed in the morning. If you read some stuff on Quora, it’s quite clear that the end goal is to reduce the opposition to the role it has in Orban’s Hungary. And also to change the narrative to the point that no one would dare claim to being a liberal in public for fear of a beat down and social ostracism. But it’s an emotional thing more than anything else. They want their revenge and they want it to hurt. 

I guess all that will convince these guys is when the repo man rocks up and takes their cars, trucks and televisions.

 

I get the billionaires and those with a nice safety blanket of assets voting for this but anyone who is vulnerable and living hand to mouth is in for a rude awakening IMO. 

 

It’s going to get difficult to blame Biden or gay people or immigrants when prices continue to rise even when these people are removed, ostracised and disadvantaged.

Edited 18 hours ago by tegs07

[prowla]

11 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

This is still the main point of MAGA. We have been getting into the weeds with tariffs and foreign policy, but for the true believers, this is what gets them out of bed in the morning. If you read some stuff on Quora, it’s quite clear that the end goal is to reduce the opposition to the role it has in Orban’s Hungary. And also to change the narrative to the point that no one would dare claim to being a liberal in public for fear of a beat down and social ostracism. But it’s an emotional thing more than anything else. They want their revenge and they want it to hurt. 

It could be viewed as a reaction to the past two decades, where people have been beaten down for not conforming to the elitist liberal edicts telling them what they are supposed to think.

 

[Buddster]

18 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

This is still the main point of MAGA. We have been getting into the weeds with tariffs and foreign policy, but for the true believers, this is what gets them out of bed in the morning. If you read some stuff on Quora, it’s quite clear that the end goal is to reduce the opposition to the role it has in Orban’s Hungary. And also to change the narrative to the point that no one would dare claim to being a liberal in public for fear of a beat down and social ostracism. But it’s an emotional thing more than anything else. They want their revenge and they want it to hurt. 

Yes, quite agree with you. trump has been planting this seed for quite a while. 

[tegs07]

15 minutes ago, prowla said:

It could be viewed as a reaction to the past two decades, where people have been beaten down for not conforming to the elitist liberal edicts telling them what they are supposed to think.

 

So they vote in billionaires who no longer need lobbyists but are given the keys to the kingdom. At least they can be bigots in public.

 

I can definitely understand people who want more freedom of expression and a more sympathetic ear for ordinary working people but draw the line at those who use hate speech and discrimination to justify it.

Edited 17 hours ago by tegs07

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

So they vote in billionaires who no longer need lobbyists but are given the keys to the kingdom. At least they can be bigots in public.

 

I can definitely understand people who want more freedom of expression and a more sympathetic ear for ordinary working people but draw the line at those who use hate speech and discrimination to justify it.

This thread seems to be turning into a Q&A.

 

Anyway, the diagnosis may be correct, but treatment may be flawed…

[Agent 00Soul]

28 minutes ago, prowla said:

It could be viewed as a reaction to the past two decades, where people have been beaten down for not conforming to the elitist liberal edicts telling them what they are supposed to think.

 

That’s the issue in a nutshell right there.  Both sides feel they are in an existential crisis and the only way to be safe is to completely neutralise the opposition. So they can no longer compromise - we are years past that point - and heels are collectively dug in. I’m not sure what the way out is except the triumph of one side or a generational shift that will take decades to materialise. 
 

Personally, I don’t understand the hatred of elites. When I was growing up, being an elite was something to aim for.  The punk rockers in my high school’s smoking section were the anti-elite. 

[peteb]

5 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

Personally, I don’t understand the hatred of elites. When I was growing up, being an elite was something to aim for.  The punk rockers in my high school’s smoking section were the anti-elite. 

 

Well, for one thing, they are pushing the rest of the population closer to poverty. Elites generally comprise of people born to that position, rather than achieving that status by merit.

 

In the post WW2 era it was very possible for someone from a normal background to improve their situation and obtain a reasonable amount of wealth / status. These days, the drawbridge has been brought back up and for every one working / lower middle class kid who makes it, 999 don't. It is now almost impossible for a kid from a poorer background to work hard and get the things that they're parents got, things most of us took for granted, like a family home, etc. 

 

[peteb]

7 hours ago, prowla said:

It could be viewed as a reaction to the past two decades, where people have been beaten down for not conforming to the elitist liberal edicts telling them what they are supposed to think.

 

 

But was it the bogeyman 'elitist liberals', or was it an elite of super rich people viewing every downturn in the economy as an opportunity to hoard an even greater proportion of the country's wealth? 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by peteb

[prowla]

11 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

That’s the issue in a nutshell right there.  Both sides feel they are in an existential crisis and the only way to be safe is to completely neutralise the opposition. So they can no longer compromise - we are years past that point - and heels are collectively dug in. I’m not sure what the way out is except the triumph of one side or a generational shift that will take decades to materialise. 
 

Personally, I don’t understand the hatred of elites. When I was growing up, being an elite was something to aim for.  The punk rockers in my high school’s smoking section were the anti-elite. 

 

That's ironic mentioning the punk rockers, as some thoughts about them popped into my head just yesterday - they were just as confirmist as everyone they thought they were rebelling against and became their own elite!

I guess anybody can form an elite if they are so inclined.

[tegs07]

10 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

This thread seems to be turning into a Q&A.

 

Anyway, the diagnosis may be correct, but treatment may be flawed…

It seems to me that MAGA, its leaders, supporters and philosophy have more of a focus on retribution, victimisation and vengeance than on any positive or collectivist ideas of how to achieve greatness. The scope of their grievances seems to be unlimited encompassing pretty much every country outside of America and multiple groups, agencies, professionals, educators, medical experts etc within America.

 

The only group that appears to be spared this wrath and desire for vengeance are billionaires, tax avoiders, the corrupt and the bullies,

 

Its a sad, sickening and shameful situation.

[prowla]

2 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

It seems to me that MAGA, its leaders, supporters and philosophy have more of a focus on retribution, victimisation and vengeance than on any positive or collectivist ideas of how to achieve greatness. The scope of their grievances seems to be unlimited encompassing pretty much every country outside of America and multiple groups, agencies, professionals, educators, medical experts etc within America.

 

The only group that appears to be spared this wrath and desire for vengeance are billionaires, tax avoiders, the corrupt and the bullies,

 

Its a sad, sickening and shameful situation.

There's nothing wrong with tax avoidance.

(Unless you incorrectly conflate it with tax evasion.)

[peteb]

4 minutes ago, prowla said:

There's nothing wrong with tax avoidance.

 

 

Yes there is, in that it only exists where governments put laws in place that have unintentional loopholes that the wealthy then exploit. Of course, the law should then be amended to get rid of these loopholes, but somehow this is always presented as attacking the poor rather than getting the super wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes. 

 

[Wombat]

In certain circumstances…

But avoidance could be as simple as buying one product over another as one as a tariff applied.

[chris_b]

20 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

It seems to me that MAGA, its leaders, supporters and philosophy have more of a focus on retribution, victimisation and vengeance than on any positive or collectivist ideas of how to achieve greatness.

 

 

Of course.

 

MAGA wants to destroy anyone who challenges them. They want the whole country to be scared into inaction, which will eliminate all opposition. Then their power grab will be complete.

 

The Republican party, mainstream media (TV, radio,papers), lawyers, civil service and law enforcement  have all been cowed. That leaves independent media (MAGA is working on those guys) and the court system, which is now under direct attack from Trump. After the chaos of many Republican Town Halls, Congressmen have been advised to stop doing them! So the public will not be able to meet the people who are supposed to serve them!

 

If there is another election, and I think that's very unlikely, Trump is in trouble, so we will see the completion of Project 2025, and full dictatorship, within the next 2 years.

[tegs07]

I found this quite helpful as I have little knowledge of the US Constitution or what the limitations are for the President:

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/with-sweeping-actions-trump-tests-us-constitutional-order-2025-03-21/

[Steve Browning]

37 minutes ago, Wombat said:

In certain circumstances…

But avoidance could be as simple as buying one product over another as one as a tariff applied.

Or taking a salary partly in dividends, because they have a lower rate of tax.

[Steve Browning]

53 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

Yes there is, in that it only exists where governments put laws in place that have unintentional loopholes that the wealthy then exploit. Of course, the law should then be amended to get rid of these loopholes, but somehow this is always presented as attacking the poor rather than getting the super wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes. 

 

 

Quite. The knee jerk reaction is to suggest it's jealousy. All wealth is founded in some form of immorality, if not illegality. 

[tegs07]

If people are a little busy to watch - just forward to the last 5 minutes.

Very concerning.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

Now Trumpmonkey Musk gas his aim swuarely on the judiciary while Trump himself uses obvious coercion to bring legal firms onto his agenda.

 

I am stunned that the disintegration of a proud, if hubristic, democracy can be so fast.

[prowla]

2 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

Or taking a salary partly in dividends, because they have a lower rate of tax.

Or contributing into a pension plan.