Trump's tariff wars...long post.

[JoeEvans]

5 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

We’re living in one. 10800 millionaires left the UK last year, double the number that left the year before.

 

 

That might or might not cover the first part of the question, depending on how many moved here during the same period, ie the net migration of millionaires. It doesn't take much to be a millionaire given property prices, that might just be a normal or even low number retiring abroad.

But it definitely doesn't answer the second part - has the UK been measurably damaged by this economically?

Edited Friday at 15:34 by JoeEvans

[prowla]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

I think most people could be persuaded to pay more tax if they thought it was being spent wisely and for the benefit of society. I remember a Swiss friend telling me years ago how his local Canton had rejected plans for a building (can’t recall what it was) as it was ugly and made of inferior materials. They wanted to pay more for an aesthetically pleasing design that would be more durable as it was seen as a better investment. I can’t imagine this happening in the UK!

We already pay a heck of a lot of taxes; I looked at my payslip earlier and there's tax + NI + employers NI.

After that I've just paid road tax on a car.

Then there's council tax. 

Then everything after food is taxed at 20%.

Filling up the car: most of that is tax.

Heating & electricity - taxed.

Insurance - taxed.

Kids education needs topping up - stealth tax. 

Frozen tax thresholds - stealth tax. 

More of our money goes on tax than we get to keep. 

The idea that we can pay just a little more is like the waffer-thin mint. 

The greed of the State is unbounded. 

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

That might or might not cover the first part of the question, depending on how many moved here during the same period, ie the net migration of millionaires. It doesn't take much to be a millionaire given property prices, that might just be a normal or even low number retiring abroad.

But it definitely doesn't answer the second part - has the UK been measurably damaged by this economically?

I would think it’s too early to say what the long term implications are. In the short term that’s a big fiscal hole to plug as millionaires contrary to myth do pay a lot of taxes. They just don’t contribute as much as if the wealth was more widely distributed.

[tegs07]

5 minutes ago, prowla said:

We already pay a heck of a lot of taxes; I looked at my payslip earlier and there's tax + NI + employers NI.

After that I've just paid road tax on a car.

Then there's council tax. 

Then everything after food is taxed at 20%.

Filling up the car: most of that is tax.

Heating & electricity - taxed.

Insurance - taxed.

Kids education needs topping up - stealth tax. 

Frozen tax thresholds - stealth tax. 

More of our money goes on tax than we get to keep. 

The idea that we can pay just a little more is like the waffer-thin mint. 

The greed of the State is unbounded. 

Personally I would be happy to pay more if I had subsidised transport, energy costs, better health care, lower retirement age etc

 

It seems to me the French taxpayer gets more bang for their buck.

 

Edit: More than a quarter of my salary goes on personal pension. The idea of working until 67 in my industry is ridiculous. I’ve been a dinosaur for years already.

Edited Friday at 15:46 by tegs07

[JoeEvans]

17 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

I would think it’s too early to say what the long term implications are. In the short term that’s a big fiscal hole to plug as millionaires contrary to myth do pay a lot of taxes. They just don’t contribute as much as if the wealth was more widely distributed.

Is it though? As I say, that could just be people with million-pound houses selling up and retiring abroad, in which case all we're losing is their pensions being spent here. It might be that a skilled 25 year-old moving here gains us more than the departing 65-year old costs. After all, we don't have to pay their end-life medical costs...

Edited Friday at 15:58 by JoeEvans

[tegs07]

13 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

Is it though? As I say, that could just be people with million-pound houses selling up and retiring abroad. All we're losing is their pensions being spent here. It might be that a skilled 25 year-old moving here gains is more than the departing 65-year old costs. After all, we don't have to pay their medical costs...

i think it’s more due to changes to the non-dom tax regime than just retirement. it’s a bit of an own goal really. the eu is getting a lot of potential investment and looking far more attractive as a bloc to attract new high net worth migrants. 

the uk is just a mess right now.

 

Edit: To get this back on track that includes the Trump escapees … 

Edited Friday at 16:07 by tegs07

[Frank Blank]

On 24/03/2025 at 17:29, Pseudonym said:

Breadhead.

 

His head is literally made of bread, Ciabatta-faced bastard.

[JoeEvans]

34 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

i think it’s more due to changes to the non-dom tax regime than just retirement. it’s a bit of an own goal really. the eu is getting a lot of potential investment and looking far more attractive as a bloc to attract new high net worth migrants. 

the uk is just a mess right now.

 

Edit: To get this back on track that includes the Trump escapees … 

Yes - the US faces a different and much more damaging version of this, with the potential for lots of younger academics and professionals to leave for Europe and elsewhere.

[tegs07]

9 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

 

His head is literally made of bread, Ciabatta-faced bastard.

Oi. I look far more like a rustic seeded loaf. The rest is fairly accurate.

[prowla]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

Personally I would be happy to pay more if I had subsidised transport, energy costs, better health care, lower retirement age etc

 

It seems to me the French taxpayer gets more bang for their buck.

 

Edit: More than a quarter of my salary goes on personal pension. The idea of working until 67 in my industry is ridiculous. I’ve been a dinosaur for years already.

...whereas I've no plans to retire any time soon.

[TimR]

2 hours ago, JoeEvans said:

Yes - the US faces a different and much more damaging version of this, with the potential for lots of younger academics and professionals to leave for Europe and elsewhere.

 Potential?

 

European universities are falling over themselves to offer research jobs to Americans. I wonder what's going on in the pharmaceuticals. 

 

 

[Staggering on]

Our PM and the President had their first contact this morning via telephone and both thought it went well whatever that means. We are in the middle of a federal election campaign and apparently they plan to talk again after the election on April 28 assuming that Carney wins. It's a bit tense in Canada these days due to major tariffs starting next week.

[Agent 00Soul]

6 hours ago, tegs07 said:

People don’t like it but we have an excellent aeronautical industry, weapons industry and the potential to be world leaders in drone production and development.

 

There is also a head start in medical cannabis which could also be decriminalised for public consumption. Stress is a big business.

 

Vice stocks ahoy.

The UK is also a world leader in video games in terms of people talent. It’s just that they often have to move to Canada or the US to work. But when they do, they often run things. 

[Daz39]

11 minutes ago, Staggering on said:

Our PM and the President had their first contact this morning via telephone and both thought it went well whatever that means. We are in the middle of a federal election campaign and apparently they plan to talk again after the election on April 28 assuming that Carney wins. It's a bit tense in Canada these days due to major tariffs starting next week.

Trump and his cronies have little political knowledge of Carney (given he’s been a banker), and they’re waiting to size him up. Although obviously he’s  a weak-willed, liberal pushover or something.

[Russ]

18 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

The UK is also a world leader in video games in terms of people talent. It’s just that they often have to move to Canada or the US to work. But when they do, they often run things. 

I worked in the video games business back in the 90s. A couple of people I used to work with ended up in Canada - one at EA in Vancouver and another at Bioware in Edmonton. They're both still out there - my friend who went to Bioware is still there, my other friend who went to Vancouver has been in and out of a dozen companies. 

 

They have a lot of companies there. Vancouver and Montreal are the hotspots. There's actually not all that many in the US by comparison - there's a few big names, obviously, but most actual game development is done in other places (Eastern Europe is another big hotspot). The big companies have head offices, marketing departments, etc in the US but not all that much more than that. 

 

I've often thought about returning to the video games industry, but, a) it's about the most insecure industry out there in terms of job security, and b) nobody's going to employ a 52-year-old who's had 25 years out of the industry and isn't management. 

Edited Friday at 21:44 by Russ

[Agent 00Soul]

15 minutes ago, Daz39 said:

Although obviously he’s  a weak-willed, liberal pushover or something.

It’s a sign of the times that the rise of populism has created a more right-wing group than banking magnates. 
 

Edited Friday at 21:41 by Agent 00Soul
Spelling

[Agent 00Soul]

5 minutes ago, Russ said:

They have a lot of companies there. Vancouver and Montreal are the hotspots. There's actually not all that many in the US by comparison - there's a few big names, obviously, but most actual game development is done in other places (Eastern Europe is another big hotspot). The big companies have head offices, marketing departments, etc in the US but not all that much more than that.

In both countries the states and provinces compete with one another with tax breaks for game publishers. For whatever reason Canada seems to have it spread over many provinces rather than only a few states (I think mostly Texas and California) that have really cultivated it. Canada also attracts employees because it generally has a higher standard of living and a political climate that attracts the sort of person who works in games, despite appalling housing situations in Vancouver and Toronto. The UK has the best schools for games and a thriving indie dev culture but can’t seem to sustain a proper industry. 

[peteb]

6 hours ago, tegs07 said:

We’re living in one. 10800 millionaires left the UK last year, double the number that left the year before. Too early for the effects to be felt yet but that gap in tax revenue has to be plugged and I expect you and me will be plugging it.

 

 

 

The trouble with that figure is that it is almost certainly b0011*cks! It has gained a lot of media attention, but they neglect to mention that it originates from a company that advises wealthy people on where to relocate for tax reasons and that they apparently based their 'research' on a small sample of about 200 people who had changed their LinkedIn status! (source: 'Should Rachel Reeves target the super rich? ', The New Statesman YouTube channel - the video does point out a lot of the issues of establishing a blunt wealth tax and suggests that there are other things the Govt could do before that). 

 

Edited Friday at 22:03 by peteb

[Russ]

23 minutes ago, Agent 00Soul said:

In both countries the states and provinces compete with one another with tax breaks for game publishers. For whatever reason Canada seems to have it spread over many provinces rather than only a few states (I think mostly Texas and California) that have really cultivated it. Canada also attracts employees because it generally has a higher standard of living and a political climate that attracts the sort of person who works in games, despite appalling housing situations in Vancouver and Toronto. The UK has the best schools for games and a thriving indie dev culture but can’t seem to sustain a proper industry. 

Having a good "density" of companies in a particular area is important for the games business - for smaller studios, a single game is often make-or-break for them, and, if the game tanks, that's the end of the company. You need to know that there's other companies in the same area, otherwise you get people who won't get involved at all if it means they're having to move to a different city, and often a different country, every few years, or take their skills to a different industry. Being a games developer requires a deep love of the medium. It's not the best paid job you can have as a coder or artist and usually requires ridiculous amounts of overtime and less-than-optimal working conditions. 

 

The UK has a solid games development industry - there's quite a few long-established companies who have been continuously at it since the 1980s, and it's pretty much the European hub for game development. There's other places (thinking Sweden, Estonia, Romania and Finland) but the UK still has more going on than all of them put together. The Grand Theft Auto games were largely developed in Leeds and Edinburgh, and Rockstar North has a lineage that goes back to the late 1980s, as part of Psygnosis (they, as DMA Design, developed the original Lemmings on the Amiga). The original Tomb Raider was developed by Core Design in Derby (by former Gremlin Graphics and Codemasters people). 

Edited Friday at 22:17 by Russ

[tauzero]

11 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

 

That last bit does genuinely baffle me.

 

Rather like the bar staff's wages getting added to your bill rather than the bar owner paying them.

[tauzero]

11 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

And quite right too. Just look at the DoI. It is essentially an extended parody of timeless (i.e. hopelessly outmoded) British virtues such as silliness, good humour, endless scatological chortling, and benign hobbies that contain the promise of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Nonetheless, quite a lot of the content over the years has suggested the existence of a shadowy, corrupt, narco-military think-tank somewhere in Wiltshire.

 

Please stop making it sound so attractive, everybody will want to join in.

[tauzero]

10 hours ago, tegs07 said:

We’re living in one. 10800 millionaires left the UK last year, double the number that left the year before. Too early for the effects to be felt yet but that gap in tax revenue has to be plugged and I expect you and me will be plugging it.

 

How much tax did they pay?

[Downunderwonder]

16 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

unproductive capital in the UK economy

I can see that as a euphemism for over valued real-estate, but what else?

 

16 hours ago, Russ said:

No they can't, they just guess! Here in New Jersey, the sales tax is 6.625% - nobody's calculating that off the top of their heads. 

 

You never know what something is going to cost until you go to the checkout - the sales tax isn't included in the shelf price and is added on at the till. 

 

 

You can multiply by two? You can multiple by 0.1 and add and subtract? Then you can calculate your tax to 1 decimal pretty easily.

 

6.625% is very near 6.6% aka 6% plus 10% of that.

 

Tax = sticker x2 x3 /100 plus 10%

 

Alternatively (Sticker x2 x2 x 2 ) -( Sticker x2)/100 plus 10%

 

Little routines like this are 2nd nature to the Americans Mr Pseudonym referenced.

[tegs07]

5 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

How much tax did they pay?

46 groats, 6 paper clips and an entire coupon of green shield stamps.

[prowla]

2 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

I can see that as a euphemism for over valued real-estate, but what else?

 

You can multiply by two? You can multiple by 0.1 and add and subtract? Then you can calculate your tax to 1 decimal pretty easily.

 

6.625% is very near 6.6% aka 6% plus 10% of that.

 

Tax = sticker x2 x3 /100 plus 10%

 

Alternatively (Sticker x2 x2 x 2 ) -( Sticker x2)/100 plus 10%

 

Little routines like this are 2nd nature to the Americans Mr Pseudonym referenced.

Work out 2/3 and shift the decimal point once left, then add that to the price.