When is Politics Not Politics?

[Chienmortbb]

I commented on another member's comments about how hard it is now to ship things in and out of the UK, and said it was due to Brexit. I was then accused of being political. Can you confirm the position? As someone that imports things from the EU, I know what Brexit has done to business and that is not politics it is counting, and I have the invoices and customs fees and shipping delays to prove it.

[lemmywinks]

There shouldn't be an issue with discussing brexit now IMO, unsettling truths are always preferable to comforting lies.

 

[tegs07]

the problem is politics and decisions made by politicians are inextricably linked and influence pretty much everything we experience in life. 

Edited February 10 by tegs07

[Marti T]

What's wrong with "being political" ?

😇

 

[Bagman]

as I do not own this site there could be numerous reasons why a non-political drive is best practice 

if I disagree then I am welcome to not be a member 

 

what I will say is that in a Capitalist Economy there is actually no such thing as non-political , it's just when or where the moderator / owner draws the line 

[NAS Bass]

2 hours ago, Bagman said:

what I will say is that in a Capitalist Economy there is actually no such thing as non-political , it's just when or where the moderator / owner draws the line 

 

Seems there is/was a definite line. 

Edited February 11 by NAS Bass

[Kev]

We ask that members avoid political discussions. Unfortunately, many members choose to ignore that rule.

 

Its on ongoing debate with the mod/admin team if I'm honest.  We tend to respond to reports at the moment, some are in favour of a hardline ban, others designated threads.  We'll ty and be as transparent as possible.

[NAS Bass]

On 11/02/2025 at 12:36, Kev said:

We ask that members avoid political discussions. Unfortunately, many members choose to ignore that rule.

 

Its on ongoing debate with the mod/admin team if I'm honest.  We tend to respond to reports at the moment, some are in favour of a hardline ban, others designated threads.  We'll ty and be as transparent as possible.

it’s either allowed or not. Make it clear which it is then members (particularly supporting members) can decide to leave this forum or stay

[Kev]

27 minutes ago, NAS Bass said:

it’s either allowed or not. Make it clear which it is then members (particularly supporting members) can decide to leave this forum or stay

That would be the ongoing debate part

 

At the moment, the guidelines are as you've quoted.  Given almost any topic can be made political, hardline banning "politics" is practically impossible.  Until we come up with something better, please use these guides and report things you think clearly breach them.

[prowla]

1 hour ago, Kev said:

That would be the ongoing debate part

 

At the moment, the guidelines are as you've quoted.  Given almost any topic can be made political, hardline banning "politics" is practically impossible.  Until we come up with something better, please use these guides and report things you think clearly breach them.

 

Many things in life are due to political decisions, but they can be discussed without making them about politics.

[Phil Starr]

On 11/02/2025 at 12:36, Kev said:

We ask that members avoid political discussions. Unfortunately, many members choose to ignore that rule.

 

Its on ongoing debate with the mod/admin team if I'm honest.  We tend to respond to reports at the moment, some are in favour of a hardline ban, others designated threads.  We'll ty and be as transparent as possible.

It’s good to see/hear that it is still being debated and that minds are still open in the team. If we are honest they often aren’t kept open by some in the ‘political’ threads.

 

It’s a shame that sometimes people forget their manners in political debates and it’s that behaviour that needs to be kept out of BC not the debate itself. I love the early discussions of the big issues in BC. It’s rare to get the chance to talk politics with people who come from a different background to ourselves. We all live in bubbles where we are rarely challenged. If our friends disagree with us they are often too polite to disagree. The only thing we all share is music and bass. For the rest we are strangers and we should expect to be challenged.

 

i can understand why the mods don’t want to referee the political debates. They often start well but end up with a couple of the usual suspects trying to score points off each other on page after page. Moderating this must become tedious. I’m of the opinion that the earlier debate is worthwhile and would love to see more of it. Maybe allow free debate but shut it up after it gets repetitive and or rudeness starts to creep in. 

[Count Bassy]

The two problems I see is that:

 

A: A lot of things can be seen as political, when really they are not. Prime example being the OP's example of brexit. It has happened and it has had effects, including problems of buying or selling bass gear from/to the EU. Is it political to dicuss these difficulties? I would say not, others would disagree.

 

B: Some people get very upset and vocal about politics and the discussion descend into personal insults. If people could control themselves and stick to polite discussions, agreeing to disagree etc., then I don't see a problem with allowing political discussion.

 

Thankfully not my problem to administer.

[prowla]

16 hours ago, Count Bassy said:

The two problems I see is that:

 

A: A lot of things can be seen as political, when really they are not. Prime example being the OP's example of brexit. It has happened and it has had effects, including problems of buying or selling bass gear from/to the EU. Is it political to dicuss these difficulties? I would say not, others would disagree.

 

B: Some people get very upset and vocal about politics and the discussion descend into personal insults. If people could control themselves and stick to polite discussions, agreeing to disagree etc., then I don't see a problem with allowing political discussion.

 

Thankfully not my problem to administer.

 

Insult -> ignore list

I have to say I've not been particularly affected by brexit; other things of recent times have had more impact, including Covid, the lettuce, Ukraine, energy prices, taxes, and scamming drivers.

 

 

Edited February 15 by prowla

[Downunderwonder]

There is a problem to say "Brexit shagged it" without the detail. That's political.

 

If you say, "since the UK became an independent tax regime there is now a lot more paperwork for me to get a simple job done", that's your truth and nobody is going to have a problem with it.

[prowla]

I see the USA and USSR are having talks about the Ukraine problem.
I don't know if the USA folks realise that legitimising the Russian invasion of Ukraine implicitly does likewise for China & Taiwan.

[Chienmortbb]

4 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

There is a problem to say "Brexit shagged it" without the detail. That's political.

 

If you say, "since the UK became an independent tax regime there is now a lot more paperwork for me to get a simple job done", that's your truth and nobody is going to have a problem with it.

Thanks, when something hacks you off it is easy to slip into cliches or sound bites so in order to clarify:

 

The Office of Budget Responsibility, the UK Government’s financial watchdog calculates that leaving the EU cost us 4% of GDP that would be somewhere between £20-30 billion. 
 

For me I pay more VAT (UK is 20%, Germany is 19%), twice the paperwork as well as a customs  processing fee. 

[PaulWarning]

the moment Brexit gets mentioned it's gets political, and some folk can't get political without getting abusive, if you want to discuss politics (or Brexit) I suggest you head over to Fretboard's Politics and Economics thread

[Chienmortbb]

1 minute ago, PaulWarning said:

the moment Brexit gets mentioned it's gets political, and some folk can't get political without getting abusive, if you want to discuss politics (or Brexit) I suggest you head over to Fretboard's Politics and Economics thread

Happy just to talk bass really, do not want to talk politics on here but thought I was answering a question sensibly. As an Engineer, admittedly retired, I deal in numbers and measurements so have to put people right when I see errors.

Even on bass related matters I find it hard when people stick to myths rather than physics. 

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, PaulWarning said:

the moment Brexit gets mentioned it's gets political, and some folk can't get political without getting abusive, if you want to discuss politics (or Brexit) I suggest you head over to Fretboard's Politics and Economics thread

 

It's not at all political to say that things changed between Before Brexit and After Brexit. Whether blue passports outweigh 4% of GDP - that's political.

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

Thanks, when something hacks you off it is easy to slip into cliches or sound bites so in order to clarify:

 

The Office of Budget Responsibility, the UK Government’s financial watchdog calculates that leaving the EU cost us 4% of GDP that would be somewhere between £20-30 billion. 
 

For me I pay more VAT (UK is 20%, Germany is 19%), twice the paperwork as well as a customs  processing fee. 

 

If buying second hand from a private seller in the EU, you're paying 20% more than you would have paid BB.

[Steve Browning]

4 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

If buying second hand from a private seller in the EU, you're paying 20% more than you would have paid BB.

Probably more, given that VAT is applied to shipping costs etc (sorry, slight attack of pedantry there).

[Chienmortbb]

5 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

If buying second hand from a private seller in the EU, you're paying 20% more than you would have paid BB.

I am buying from a company.

[Steve Browning]

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

For me I pay more VAT (UK is 20%, Germany is 19%), twice the paperwork as well as a customs  processing fee. 

What are the circumstances? Do you refer to the additional cashflow involved in the UK VAT rate or some other issue?

 

VAT always gets my Revenue nose twitching!!