What really impacts on your bass tone?

[Mrbigstuff]

5 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Please elaborate on string height. I've heard this before and would genuinely like to know more. For reference I like my action super low. 

I prefer a medium action. IMO higher action enables more warmth and fullness in the note compared to lower action which is easier to play and gets a bit of that sizzle/ Slapback that I associate with late 70s/80s sounds. So for me medium is the compromise but when I play a bass with a setup either side of that it changes my sound and note choices completely. Janek Gwizdala documented going from being a super low action player to high and then benefits he gained from doing so.

[Minininjarob]

On 17/02/2025 at 08:44, Burns-bass said:

Honestly, people worry about so much nowadays.

 

I really don't remember all this junk 20 odd years ago. You just bought the best amp you could afford and configured it when you arrived at the venue. 

 

We're a world of worries.

I think videos like this are really useful for me. I’m relatively new and there’s so much info out there it’s overwhelming and you don’t know who is right. Videos like this cut out the BS and stop me buying stuff I don’t need. 
 

[Minininjarob]

On 16/02/2025 at 09:51, neepheid said:

Hardly gave the pickup change a chance, did he?  From a stock Squier pickup to a Quarter Pounder, ooh, that's different!  Not.  Now if he'd swapped the pickup to a split MFD, or a Lace Aluma P, I think they'd be having a very different conversation...

The video is clearly aimed at beginner to intermediate players. I have considered getting a QP but I won’t now cos I know it doesn’t make much difference. I’ve never heard of the pickups you mention and certainly don’t have the money to swap mine out just in case it might be better. 

[Minininjarob]

On 16/02/2025 at 14:30, Dan Dare said:

 

Yep. Someone I know once asked me to help with sound for his band. The bass player had a custom coffee table instrument, BF cabs and a pricey amp (can't remember which). The guitar player had a Boogie head and two matching 2x12 cabs. The bass, whilst smooth, deep and expensive sounding up close, was all boom and wool out front. The guitar was similarly boomy and undefined and LOUD.

 

I suggested to them that they cut the low end severely and asked the guitar player to disconnect one of his cabs. Both shook their heads. I tried explaining that up close and out front are not the same thing, that room acoustics and the way sounds blend can do odd things, etc, etc. No dice. So I left. They later called me, bleating about the fact that I hadn't stuck around (it was a favour - I wasn't getting paid).

 

You can lead a horse to water.

As someone who is about to play their first ever gig this is gold. Would the same be true in an outside setting? I’m guessing not. 
Inside would it always be useful to back off my bass on the eq a touch to ensure I get a good sound? 

[Steve Browning]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

How so? I can only speak for myself, but I certainly don't choose music that "suits the tone I like". At the risk of being branded a troll again, that seems bizarre. 

 

Yes. You can only speak for yourself, as did I. I am happy with my approach, less so with your condescension. 

[neepheid]

Just now, Minininjarob said:

The video is clearly aimed at beginner to intermediate players. I have considered getting a QP but I won’t now cos I know it doesn’t make much difference. I’ve never heard of the pickups you mention and certainly don’t have the money to swap mine out just in case it might be better. 

 

It's experience which tells me whether or not a pickup will make a significant difference or not.  I just didn't appreciate the use of a pretty boring, edge example then just extrapolate that out to "all pickup swaps do eff all" type conclusion.  Absolute tosh.

 

But yes, your wallet will thank you for keeping out of it

 

[Minininjarob]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

How so? I can only speak for myself, but I certainly don't choose music that "suits the tone I like". At the risk of being branded a troll again, that seems bizarre. I choose music I like and adjust the sound I produce, the style I play in, etc to suit it. I can't be the only one.

 

 

Not so. It's simple to use a wireless or even a long lead during sound-check to go for a walk and check the sound from a variety of locations in a venue. I do it all the time. You don't need to guess or be experienced in "how your bass sound reproduces in different rooms" when you can hear it for yourself. Problems will usually be obvious - too much/not enough low/mids/highs, more/less volume required and so on. Most amp heads have plenty enough variation in  eq settings to get a decent result. I'm struggling to understand why so many find it a problem to ensure they blend well with the other musicians and the room. It seems so basic.

 

This 100%. I am currently trying to learn as much as I can from a close friend who is a pro live sound engineer (5000+ audiences he also is an event producer sometimes too) and owns a backline business too. A friend of mine who plays lead in our band came with me to his industrial unit to learn how to set up our amps and he gave us such good info on how to set up individually and how to integrate with each other. 
Basically it matters not much on how you sound individually but how your sound integrates with other band members. He told us loads of examples where he gets overlapping frequencies being played and in order to get an overall good mix he has sometimes just had to turn some stuff down so it’s inaudible eg a synth being played with a lot of left hand plus a bass and a piano left hand. He also said never turn anything down, as he can cut stuff but as others have said you can’t make sounds from nothing. He said bassists are sometimes the worst as they cut all the treble and some high mids out and all he gets is a muddy mess of a sound. 
Basically if your engineer is good then ask what they want and give it to them, and make sure your band plays in a way that leaves space for each other. 

Edited Thursday at 19:49 by Minininjarob

[Reggaebass]

To answer the OP,  for me the biggest impact I had was switching to valve amps, I’ve had many amps in the past, probably like most of us , markbass, Ashdown etc which were all good but the valve tone just really clicked with me, it doesn’t matter what bass I use they all sound great , so the amp makes a big difference I think 

Edited Thursday at 20:02 by Reggaebass

[Terry M.]

48 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

I prefer a medium action. IMO higher action enables more warmth and fullness in the note compared to lower action which is easier to play and gets a bit of that sizzle/ Slapback that I associate with late 70s/80s sounds. So for me medium is the compromise but when I play a bass with a setup either side of that it changes my sound and note choices completely. Janek Gwizdala documented going from being a super low action player to high and then benefits he gained from doing so.

Okay cool this is interesting. The reason I like a low action is based on my attack.I barely graze the strings and therefore turn the amp up a bit more to compensate. Also facilitates slap and pop techniques. I've honestly never considered how my tone may be affected but I've definitely heard this before 👍

[peteb]

2 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

I prefer a medium action. IMO higher action enables more warmth and fullness in the note compared to lower action which is easier to play and gets a bit of that sizzle/ Slapback that I associate with late 70s/80s sounds. So for me medium is the compromise but when I play a bass with a setup either side of that it changes my sound and note choices completely. Janek Gwizdala documented going from being a super low action player to high and then benefits he gained from doing so.

 

I agree. I used to set basses up with what I thought was a fairly low action, until Chris Dodson from Alpher basses did a set-up for me. The set-up was was great until I tried to play it in earnest, when it kept cr*pping out when I played in a normal fashion (and I'm not a particularly heavy handed player). I had to take it back to him to raise the action before I had a gig the following night! 

 

I have recently been experimenting with a slightly higher action on my P basses, which as you say, gives you a fuller sound and also allows you to use the same bass in both concert pitch or tuned down one. However, I've just got Jon Shuker set up a couple of basses with a fair bit of relief, where he queried whether I had overdone it. It turns out he was right, and I am going to have to straighten the neck to get a slightly lower action. It sounds great, but just too much of a struggle to play a whole set with...! 

 

Edited Thursday at 21:38 by peteb

[Dan Dare]

2 hours ago, Minininjarob said:

As someone who is about to play their first ever gig this is gold. Would the same be true in an outside setting? I’m guessing not. 
Inside would it always be useful to back off my bass on the eq a touch to ensure I get a good sound? 

 

Playing outdoors removes the major problems of reflected sound and aggravating resonant frequencies of rooms. You can find you actually need more low end, occasionally a lot more. In reality, playing outdoors without PA support is usually difficult if you want to play at any volume.

 

Indoors, it's a case of suck it and see. It will depend on a lot of things - size/shape of the venue, other instruments (you mention in your subsequent post the issue with keyboard left hand clashing with the bass), density of arrangements (more instruments can mean more likelihood of clutter and clashes), how close you are to each other, etc, etc. Your friend's advice is good.

 

Thank you for agreeing with what I've been saying about the importance of integrating with each other sonically. It makes a massive difference.

[Terry M.]

22 minutes ago, peteb said:

 The set-up was was great until I tried to play it in earnest, when it kept cr*pping out when I played in a normal fashion (and I'm not a particularly heavy handed player). 

 

Do you mean it was noisy and clanky? I forgot to add that I like my action as low as it can go BEFORE it enters Clanksville Central.

[peteb]

1 minute ago, Terry M. said:

Do you mean it was noisy and clanky? I forgot to add that I like my action as low as it can go BEFORE it enters Clanksville Central.

 

No, it was choking out. 

 

[Terry M.]

4 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

I prefer a medium action. IMO higher action enables more warmth and fullness in the note compared to lower action which is easier to play and gets a bit of that sizzle/ Slapback that I associate with late 70s/80s sounds. 

Could this be because playing with a higher action facilitates digging in which will affect dynamics leading to fuller sounding notes as opposed to the opposite? I'm more inclined to suggest that tone is affected more by dynamics rather than string action but I don't claim to be an expert on the topic.

[Mrbigstuff]

15 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Could this be because playing with a higher action facilitates digging in which will affect dynamics leading to fuller sounding notes as opposed to the opposite? I'm more inclined to suggest that tone is affected more by dynamics rather than string action but I don't claim to be an expert on the topic.

I’m not a scientist so could be wide of the mark but IME higher action impacts the vibration of the string. Does this help sustain and frequency range? I’m not sure but I think it might. 
I see strings as similar to tyres on a car, they are the contact patch so have the biggest impact.

[tauzero]

6 hours ago, neepheid said:

It's experience which tells me whether or not a pickup will make a significant difference or not.  I just didn't appreciate the use of a pretty boring, edge example then just extrapolate that out to "all pickup swaps do eff all" type conclusion.  Absolute tosh.

 

But yes, your wallet will thank you for keeping out of it

 

There's a couple of Spectre Sound Studio videos where Glenn demonstrates the total lack of difference in guitar pickups, while making absolutely and completely clear that he's talking about heavily distorted guitars playing metal. And yet he still gets people complaining that the pickups sound different when played without distortion, which wasn't his point.

 

Low End Lobster does a few comparisons between different ranges of bass with different pickups, eg the Ibanez EHB series with Bart BH2s on the low end ones and Nordstrands on the top of the range (although there's now another range with Fishman pickups), and also the same basses after he's changed the pickups. Pickups will colour the sound to a greater or lesser extent - I would say that the ideal is a pickup that doesn't significantly colour the sound, so you can add colour of your own. That means it's got to put out a full range of sound pretty evenly, not be weak at the bottom or top end, because you can always take away but you can't add what isn't there. Alternatively, you get a pickup which is pre-coloured the way you want it, though that then limits the range of sounds you can get from it.

[Terry M.]

5 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

I’m not a scientist so could be wide of the mark but IME higher action impacts the vibration of the string. Does this help sustain and frequency range? I’m not sure but I think it might. 
I see strings as similar to tyres on a car, they are the contact patch so have the biggest impact.

Very interesting. One day I'd like to understand the science of this a bit more. I'm now a die hard low action slinger and enjoy my tone but it's good you're also happy with yours. 

[jazzyvee]

5 hours ago, tauzero said:

.......Pickups will colour the sound to a greater or lesser extent - I would say that the ideal is a pickup that doesn't significantly colour the sound, so you can add colour of your own. That means it's got to put out a full range of sound pretty evenly, not be weak at the bottom or top end, because you can always take away but you can't add what isn't there. Alternatively, you get a pickup which is pre-coloured the way you want it, though that then limits the range of sounds you can get from it.

My understanding is that this is the concept behind Alembic pickups, they are non voiced low impedance pickups and merely reproduce what the string is doing without emphasising any particular part of the frequencies. The player can then choose what their sound should be using their filter or bass/treble controls. That said, the sound does not appeal to everyone. 

[BigRedX]

Everything from how you play and what you choose to play right up to the space in which you play it will have an effect on your tone. Some things will be very important other will be completely overshadowed those very important things. What is important and what is not, will be different for every player.

[Terry M.]

Just to flog the high/low action a little more,I've literally pulled Fenders from shop walls and returned them back after less than a minute due to the high action from I presume the factory. Both American and Mexican. I'm not the only one who's mentioned this and I wonder why they're shipped like that. Tonal reasons? Some say it hides less than perfect fretwork. I've no idea but don't like it so much.

[BigRedX]

But so long as the nut and bridge have been adjusted to allow the best possible tuning across all the strings and frets, and bearing in mind that tuning on all fretted instruments is a compromise, everything else about a "set-up" is subjective.

[Reggaebass]

I can’t say I’ve ever noticed any difference in sound from a higher action to a lower action unless it’s low and someone is playing hard in which case it’s noisy where the strings are buzzing, I play with a super low action and a soft touch, I don’t like buzz 

[BigRedX]

3 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I can’t say I’ve ever noticed any difference in sound from a higher action to a lower action unless it’s low and someone is playing hard in which case it’s noisy where the strings are buzzing, I play with a super low action and a soft touch, I don’t like buzz 

 

Because something else in your playing style or signal chain is over-riding the possible effects of changing the action.

[Terry M.]

7 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I can’t say I’ve ever noticed any difference in sound from a higher action to a lower action unless it’s low and someone is playing hard in which case it’s noisy where the strings are buzzing, I play with a super low action and a soft touch, I don’t like buzz 

I'm right with you on this.

[Stub Mandrel]

6 hours ago, tauzero said:

That means it's got to put out a full range of sound pretty evenly, not be weak at the bottom or top end, because you can always take away but you can't add what isn't there.

 

What is and isn't there is mostly down to position (which determines the harmonics available) and the pickup design (wide vs narrow, single vs double coil).