20 vat reduction for all oversea buyer Eu and world wide!

[J66Bass]

Good morning, to my shock a friend of mine from France got absolutely nowhere with a reduction on a 3000 pounds with a reputable  uk professional shop , WHY this particular shop made absolutely no concessions for a minimum reduction while other reputable shop offer it straight away such as Bass gallery, I personally don’t get it , your thoughts ? This customer in France will have to pay now the VAT twice ! Is that right ? 

[Steve Browning]

Hi 

 

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. A bass at 3k being exported would be 2.5k but would then attract French VAT on importation into France.

 

What was the request to the shop? What reduction was expected?

 

What was the delivery address?

Edited Monday at 07:34 by Steve Browning

[Downunderwonder]

If France is like NZ there would be VAT to pay on the shipping fee paid even with it attracting VAT already.

[Steve Browning]

Just now, Downunderwonder said:

If France is like NZ there would be VAT to pay on the shipping fee paid even with it attracting VAT already.

Yes, it's the same. Import VAT is applied after all other charges are added  - even any Import Duty. 

[J66Bass]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

Hi 

 

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. A bass at 3k being exported would be 2.5k but would then attract French VAT on importation into France.

 

What was the request to the shop? What reduction was expected?

 

What was the delivery address?

My friend is in France and he like to buy a bass in Uk , would that shop automatically give him a reduction like bass gallery does offer ? Thanks 

[Steve Browning]

In short, yes. To charge UK VAT on an export is, technically, fraudulent. 

[Skybone]

I would expect that the same post Brexit rules on trade & tax would apply if someone in the UK bought something from a retailer in mainland Europe, that any tax is paid to the retailer, and therefore no tax is paid on importation into the country of delivery (anyone who's bought anything from Thomann for example would attest to this).

 

They could always get on the Eurostar, and nip in to the Gallery and make an event of it.

[J66Bass]

2 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

In short, yes. To charge UK VAT on an export is, technically, fraudulent. 

So why this particular shop is refusing !I m really surprised, should I call them myself as my spoken English is better ? Any how thanks for your answer 

[J66Bass]

13 minutes ago, Skybone said:

I would expect that the same post Brexit rules on trade & tax would apply if someone in the UK bought something from a retailer in mainland Europe, that any tax is paid to the retailer, and therefore no tax is paid on importation into the country of delivery (anyone who's bought anything from Thomann for example would attest to this).

 

They could always get on the Eurostar, and nip in to the Gallery and make an event of it.

The bass is not in bass gallery but in another shop but bass gallery does offer that vat reduction ..

[Steve Browning]

4 minutes ago, J66Bass said:

So why this particular shop is refusing !I m really surprised, should I call them myself as my spoken English is better ? Any how thanks for your answer 

I would certainly be calling them. VAT Act 1994, Section 30, item 6. HMRC Notice 703 refers. They are not allowed to charge UK VAT. 

[Steve Browning]

23 minutes ago, Skybone said:

I would expect that the same post Brexit rules on trade & tax would apply if someone in the UK bought something from a retailer in mainland Europe, that any tax is paid to the retailer, and therefore no tax is paid on importation into the country of delivery (anyone who's bought anything from Thomann for example would attest to this).

 

They could always get on the Eurostar, and nip in to the Gallery and make an event of it.

I'm afraid that is not correct. The EU seller does not charge any VAT but HMRC does on importation into the UK. 

 

Thomann has a UK VAT registration, from which UK VAT is charged. 

[Bernmeister]

From my very limited experience on this type of scenario.

If the retailer does charge vat on the purchase, you should be able to request a tax form from them.

So that you can claim the tax back, when it reaches the country, of where the item will eventually reside. 
 

Some retailers will fill the form in for you on purchase, others won’t mention it. 
If that is the case you should be able to request the appropriate form.

Of course you must mention at the time of the enquiry / purchase 

 

 

[Steve Browning]

2 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I would certainly be calling them. VAT Act 1994, Section 30, item 6. HMRC Notice 703 refers. They are not allowed to charge UK VAT. 

If you get nowhere, I am happy to talk to them. 

 

10 years a VAT inspector and over 30 years in industry, as head of VAT for the European region. 

[Steve Browning]

1 minute ago, Bernmeister said:

From my very limited experience on this type of scenario.

If the retailer does charge vat on the purchase, you should be able to request a tax form from them.

So that you can claim the tax back, when it reaches the country, of where the item will eventually reside. 
 

Some retailers will fill the form in for you on purchase, others won’t mention it. 
If that is the case you should be able to request the appropriate form.

Of course you must mention at the time of the enquiry / purchase 

 

 

The retail export scheme no longer exists. 

[J66Bass]

8 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I would certainly be calling them. VAT Act 1994, Section 30, item 6. HMRC Notice 703 refers. They are not allowed to charge UK VAT. 

Thanks I believe I have a case to call them ,thank you 

[J66Bass]

7 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

If you get nowhere, I am happy to talk to them. 

 

10 years a VAT inspector and over 30 years in industry, as head of VAT for the European region. 

Thanks , I will probably Message you privately, I’m on half term abroad myself, thanks so much 

[Downunderwonder]

@Steve Browning might like to enlighten us what bureaucratic hoops a UK shop would need to jump through to do a one off export sale.

[Steve Browning]

None. The courier should handle all the paperwork. 

 

If you send a parcel overseas, the Post Office just asks what's in the package. The courier will assign the correct commodity code and then deal with import taxes etc.

 

The shop will ring it through the till as zero rated. I would think the usual courier is bound to be able to handle the rest. 

[police squad]

21 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

In short, yes. To charge UK VAT on an export is, technically, fraudulent. 

what if it's a commision sale Steve.

When I worked in a shop (35 years ago) VAT was payable on the comission fee and not the amount given to the seller

Our commision fee was 20%

 

BTW it's nice to see when someone knows what they're talking about

are you still in the job?

[Steve Browning]

Thank you. I actually retired at the end of August. Certainly nice to be able to help.

 

A commission sale is slightly different in that the supply from the shop to the seller is one of services. 

 

If handled correctly, you buy the bass from the owner and the shop charges the owner the commission. 

 

Obviously the amount you pay covers both of these. 

 

I suspect in many instances that isn't exactly what happens but that is how it works in theory. 

[prowla]

I was going to say no you don't pay VAT twice, but I'll defer to @Steve Browning!

(Oops - I said it anyway...)

[Steve Browning]

23 hours ago, Skybone said:

They could always get on the Eurostar, and nip in to the Gallery and make an event of it.

Just for the sake of completeness. In the absence of the retail export scheme, travelling to the UK to buy the bass would result in a UK sale with UK VAT properly charged.

[Beedster]

20 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Just for the sake of completeness. In the absence of the retail export scheme, travelling to the UK to buy the bass would result in a UK sale with UK VAT properly charged.

 

Plus the (albeit vey small risk) of you being stopped by customs taking it back into the EU and being charged again I'd guess?

[Steve Browning]

10 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Plus the (albeit vey small risk) of you being stopped by customs taking it back into the EU and being charged again I'd guess?

True. You should be ok but front line staff aren't always on top of the rules. 

[police squad]

5 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

Thank you. I actually retired at the end of August. Certainly nice to be able to help.

 

A commission sale is slightly different in that the supply from the shop to the seller is one of services. 

 

If handled correctly, you buy the bass from the owner and the shop charges the owner the commission. 

 

Obviously the amount you pay covers both of these. 

 

I suspect in many instances that isn't exactly what happens but that is how it works in theory. 

where were you based Steve? Just curious, a friend of mine was a VAT officer many years ago and my wife has been in customs 40+ years now