Upgrade = Downgrade

[SimonK]

1 hour ago, Terry M. said:

I've never (from memory) had a bass that had tuners and a bridge that didn't do what they were designed to do. My issue if I had one had always been some other aspect. Again this is only my experience. I don't play and hold notes long enough for sustain to be a concern of mine. I understand this is one reason for bridge swaps.

 

Blimey - after scratchy pots, failing jack sockets and broken battery wires, tuners and bridges are generally the next things that cause me problems!

[Woodinblack]

1 minute ago, SimonK said:

 

Blimey - after scratchy pots, failing jack sockets and broken battery wires, tuners and bridges are generally the next things that cause me problems!

 

Can't recall having a playing issue from a bridge (I had one that caught my hand badly so I replaced it), but I have had tuners that weren't great, including a few that broke (although one of the broken ones was a gotoh).

[Terry M.]

8 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

Blimey - after scratchy pots, failing jack sockets and broken battery wires, tuners and bridges are generally the next things that cause me problems!

What is it they fail to do after a while? I'd like to hear of other experiences. Scratchy pots and having to replace the jack socket I've experienced,both minor fixes.Never broken a battery wire but I can see how it can happen. I've even yet to break a string. Maybe I'm too soft on my gear 😂

 

 

 

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Terry M.

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, Terry M. said:

This must happen so much after making changes 🤔

TBH i just went with what Warwick recommended. It wouldn't take much to put an EMG pre-amp in but would it still sound like a Warwick Thumb ?

Dave

[SimonK]

1 minute ago, Terry M. said:

What is it they fail to do after a while? I'd like to hear of other experiences. Scratchy pots and having to replace the jack socket I've experienced,both minor fixes.Never broken a battery wire but I can see how it can happen. 

 

Losing tuning stability is almost always a tuner, nut or bridge problem. Sweat in bridges also causes them to corrode and isn't the easiest thing to get out without taking them apart. Tuners can seize up as well, and can get knocked if the bass gets knocked off its stand (no matter how careful it happens sooner or later!) although I should add these things all happen on my gigging basses - I have a couple stay at home guitars and nothing has gone wrong with these!

[Terry M.]

4 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

TBH i just went with what Warwick recommended. It wouldn't take much to put an EMG pre-amp in but would it still sound like a Warwick Thumb ?

Dave

I think it would still. I'm playing my 2001 Broadneck Thumb 5 right now coincidentally. All stock of course 😊

[Terry M.]

4 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

Losing tuning stability is almost always a tuner, nut or bridge problem. Sweat in bridges also causes them to corrode and isn't the easiest thing to get out without taking them apart. Tuners can seize up as well, and can get knocked if the bass gets knocked off its stand (no matter how careful it happens sooner or later!) although I should add these things all happen on my gigging basses - I have a couple stay at home guitars and nothing has gone wrong with these!

I'm picking your brains a bit because I'm learning from this discussion. Hope you don't mind. How does a bridge contribute to tuning problems?

[dmccombe7]

15 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

I think it would still. I'm playing my 2001 Broadneck Thumb 5 right now coincidentally. All stock of course 😊

When i bought this Thumb bass back in 1990 (its an 89) it developed a very loud pop noise when switching between active and passive. It had to be returned to Warwick in Germany who were brilliant back then and i was given the choice of bass from the shop while it was away. Warwick returned it to me along with a broken English letter of apology and a box full of various goodies incl 3 sets of strings, hoodie, several posters, picks etc. All very nicely done and that has always stuck in my mind. Not sure they would do that now tho. 

It was a new bass and expensive back then. It cost me more than the WAL i had a few yrs earlier.

Dave 

[Terry M.]

2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

When i bought this Thumb bass back in 1990 (its an 89) it developed a very loud pop noise when switching between active and passive. It had to be returned to Warwick in Germany who were brilliant back then and i was given the choice of bass from the shop while it was away. Warwick returned it to me along with a broken English letter of apology and a box full of various goodies incl 3 sets of strings, hoodie, several posters, picks etc. All very nicely done and that has always stuck in my mind. Not sure they would do that now tho. 

It was a new bass and expensive back then. It cost me more than the WAL i had a few yrs earlier.

Dave 

That's pretty awesome. Yeah maybe they wouldn't go to those lengths today sadly.

[Ed_S]

12 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

What is it they fail to do after a while? I'd like to hear of other experiences.

 

Granted this isn't a 'fail to do after a while' - it's a manufacturing defect, but I've had bridges where the grub screws for adjusting the action were so loose that the vibration of the strings caused the screws to turn and the saddles to hit the deck. Tried new grub screws but it was the holes in the saddles that were too big or badly tapped, and replacement saddles weren't an option. I could have bodged them with thread-lock or PTFE or nail varnish etc. but in all cases it was just easier to get a new bridge that actually worked.

[Terry M.]

5 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

 

Granted this isn't a 'fail to do after a while' - it's a manufacturing defect, but I've had bridges where the grub screws for adjusting the action were so loose that the vibration of the strings caused the screws to turn and the saddles to hit the deck. Tried new grub screws but it was the holes in the saddles that were too big or badly tapped, and replacement saddles weren't an option. I could have bodged them with thread-lock or PTFE or nail varnish etc. but in all cases it was just easier to get a new bridge that actually worked.

Got you. Can't say that's ever happened to me but it sounds like a real pain.Would that also bring fret buzzing as it lowered itself as well as flat notes?

[neepheid]

There are many reasons why things happen the way they do RE: "upgrades"

 

Take the Babicz bridge I put on my Epiphone Les Paul bass.  I was doing the whole "black and gold" thing so was doing gold hardware.  Trouble is, you can't get a gold three point bridge for love nor money.  Hen's teeth second hand, and Gibson/Epiphone won't sell them to you, despite them being used on a current product (the Rumblekat).  So because I wanted the project to finish before I die, I got a gold Babicz bridge.  I don't even like the Babicz bridge - I think it's an overengineered, steampunk monstrosity, but at the time it was cheaper than the Hipshot.

 

As for the stock, chrome three point bridge - I gave that FOC to a Basschatter to breathe life back into a Westbury bass whose bridge appeared to have been made from cheese.

 

If I ever was to sell that bass, I would just describe it how it is now and leave it up to the prospective buyer if they agree with the value I assign it.

 

Oh and the last time I replaced a bridge, it was because there was an annoying rattle coming from one of the intonation screws.  Probably only an acoustic thing that would not have been heard over the amp, but it still bugged the living excrement out of me (as I do enjoy a lazy boi unplugged noodle).

[Passinwind]

On 22/02/2025 at 04:59, Rayman said:

It’s the word I probably hate more than any other when searching for a new bass……. “Upgraded”. The seller “upgraded” the tuners, pickups, bridge or whatever….. it’s a massive turn off to me, and usually turns me away from the sale. I want the bass to be as original as possible, so that I  can decide wether or not the bass needs any customisation to suit me, not the previous owner. 
 

Always keep the original parts, and put them back on when selling (imo). “Upgrades” hardly ever equal higher value instrument from the original stock bass, and you can re-sell those “better” (subjective) parts separately, and possibly for better gain.

 

Just my opinion, but I do like to see unaltered instruments (where possible) when I’m buying. 

The last bass I acquired came to me with no control holes or wiring in place, not even drilled for an output jack. Saved everyone involved a considerable amount of work and hassle.

[Terry M.]

3 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

 

Oh and the last time I replaced a bridge, it was because there was an annoying rattle coming from one of the intonation screws.  Probably only an acoustic thing that would not have been heard over the amp, but it still bugged the living excrement out of me (as I do enjoy a lazy boi unplugged noodle).

That would also bother the daylights out of me too 😂

[Ed_S]

2 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Got you. Can't say that's ever happened to me but it sounds like a real pain.Would that also bring fret buzzing as it lowered itself as well as flat notes?

 

Yeah, it was beyond buzzing on the worst one - we're talking full choking-out and rattling within one song.

 

Speaking of Warwick preamps, as you were, I had a Rockbass one fail last year and after a bit of back-and-forth they eventually sent a new preamp out to Thomann who forwarded it on to me to fit. They would have fitted it but I said I was happy to avoid the chance of loss or damage in shipping and just do it myself. Thing is, in the intervening time I'd actually grabbed some pots, a switch and a jack from my bits box and wired it up passive (well.. they're active pickups so still need power, but then into a passive volume/tone) and used the switch to allow me to split the twin-jazz pickup in the bridge. In the end I much preferred that to the preamp, so the new one it still in packaging.

[Terry M.]

45 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

 

Yeah, it was beyond buzzing on the worst one - we're talking full choking-out and rattling within one song.

 

Speaking of Warwick preamps, as you were, I had a Rockbass one fail last year and after a bit of back-and-forth they eventually sent a new preamp out to Thomann who forwarded it on to me to fit. They would have fitted it but I said I was happy to avoid the chance of loss or damage in shipping and just do it myself. Thing is, in the intervening time I'd actually grabbed some pots, a switch and a jack from my bits box and wired it up passive (well.. they're active pickups so still need power, but then into a passive volume/tone) and used the switch to allow me to split the twin-jazz pickup in the bridge. In the end I much preferred that to the preamp, so the new one it still in packaging.

Oh that's not good.

You sound like you have great tinkering skills. A passive Warwick even with active pickups is indeed a  beautiful thing soundwise. I nearly bought one last year from Will at BassBros (Korean Pro Series I think it was) but it went fast. Do you think you'll eventually install the new preamp?

Edited 11 hours ago by Terry M.

[SimonK]

It sounds to me from reading this there are two types of buyers:

 

1) I want something with the original spec but second hand

2) I want an instrument and don't mind if it has a history

 

Possibly the market for 1)'s is more lucrative than 2)'s, but I'd wager the 2)'s often play better!

 

What we all seem to agree on is that a potential 3) "I've upgraded so pay me more" is a non-starter!

Edited 11 hours ago by SimonK

[Terry M.]

14 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

 

Possibly the market for 1)'s is more lucrative than 2)'s, but I'd wager the 2)'s often play better!

Either 1) or 2) can have a good or bad set-up?

Subjectively of course. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Terry M.

[Misdee]

One persons upgrade is someone else's act of vandalism. As with everything, you pay your money and take your choice. 

 

What I will say is that there are some people, quite a lot of people, who have a very child-like compulsion to tinker with valuable precision-made items of various kinds, be it cameras, watches or musical equipment such as guitars and amps ect. A big part of the reason why they have bought it is so they can play at fixing or improving it. Even if they have some awareness they are out of their depth, sooner or later the temptation to start pissing about with whatever it is overwhelms them. Whether you want to be the next recipient of these goods is a judgement call.

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, Ed_S said:

 

Granted this isn't a 'fail to do after a while' - it's a manufacturing defect, but I've had bridges where the grub screws for adjusting the action were so loose that the vibration of the strings caused the screws to turn and the saddles to hit the deck. Tried new grub screws but it was the holes in the saddles that were too big or badly tapped, and replacement saddles weren't an option. I could have bodged them with thread-lock or PTFE or nail varnish etc. but in all cases it was just easier to get a new bridge that actually worked.

Yep had that with a few Fender style bridges. To be honest its only been on Fender basses. Both Mex built ones.

Other than that issue they were pretty much ok basses.

Dave

[Mrbigstuff]

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

Tuners can seize up as well, and can get knocked if the bass gets knocked off its stand (no matter how careful it happens sooner or later!)

I once knew a guy who replaced his Squier tuning peg with a 50p coin, is that a downgrade? 😆

[tauzero]

6 minutes ago, Misdee said:

One persons upgrade is someone else's act of vandalism. As with everything, you pay your money and take your choice. 

 

The Ebay weird and wonderful sub-forum used to regularly feature 70s Precisions which had had J pickups installed in the bridge position, which were invariably met by screams of approbation from the Fender fanbois who failed to appreciate that in the 80s a 70s P bass was not a collectors' item but something to be modified if you wanted to, with the possibility of improving the sound available.

[Ed_S]

9 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Oh that's not good.

You sound like you have great tinkering skills. A passive Warwick even with active pickups is indeed a  beautiful thing soundwise. I nearly bought one last year from Will at BassBros but it went fast. Do you think you'll eventually install the new preamp?

 

I doubt it, to be honest, but in the spirit of this thread I'll be sure to include it should I ever come to sell. I've actually just recently bought another Rockbass - a Streamer LX this time - and I've done a version (the pickups are passive J's, so no battery or switch needed) of the same thing with that so they're both nearing P-bass levels of 'nothing to go wrong', and I wired them up so I've only got myself to blame if anything does! I guess some would call what I've done a downgrade...

 

I know my limits where the tinkering is concerned, but I bought both of these as end-of-line b-stock returns and was quietly confident that I'd be able to get them into shape. They were both Friday afternoon specials in the fit and finish department and the fret ends needed attention, but they've got good bones and they're now metal-gig-appropriate workhorses.

[prowla]

One issue is when the sellers says it "owes them" however much and expects to recupl the full price of the upgrades.

[peteb]

32 minutes ago, Misdee said:

What I will say is that there are some people, quite a lot of people, who have a very child-like compulsion to tinker with valuable precision-made items of various kinds, be it cameras, watches or musical equipment such as guitars and amps ect. A big part of the reason why they have bought it is so they can play at fixing or improving it. Even if they have some awareness they are out of their depth, sooner or later the temptation to start pissing about with whatever it is overwhelms them. Whether you want to be the next recipient of these goods is a judgement call.

 

The thing is that the beauty of the original Fender designs, is that their virtue was in their simplicity.

 

These original designs produced the industry standards tones that define what we think an electric bass should sound like, but it is relatively easy to make minor improvements i.e. swapping a bridge out or changing pickups. Of course, you might prefer the original BBOT bridge design to a badass of whatever bridge you could choose, which is perfectly valid. But you can easily tweak a P bass (for example) to make what you consider to be a marginal improvement, but without changing the overall characteristic sound of the bass. Which is what lots of us did to 70s Fenders back in the 80s (see @tauzero's recent post above). 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by peteb