Upgrade = Downgrade

[SteveXFR]

14 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Let us know how you get on with it? 😂

 

I wouldn't touch that thing! Surprisingly, it's been for sale for a long time.

[SimonK]

I think there is a level of honesty to all this. For instance I drove up to Liverpool fifteen years ago to pick up a Stingray via eBay, and when I got to it the case reeked of cigarette smoke and there was a crack in the neck plate where someone had overtightened a screw (neither of which were mentioned in the eBay ad). It played fine, I got £200 off the price, and sourced a new Stingray neck plate although now the serial number on the new neck plate doesn't match the actual bass (to this day I don't know how the luthier who did the fix, clean & set-up came across it). I also got a new, branded, musicman case which fixed the smell. I've been playing that bass for 15 years now with no problems at all, albeit might need a refret fairly soon. I have no intention to sell it at the moment, but when I do I will include the old neck plate with the crack and tell the story - hopefully any potential buyer will like the fact the instrument has a backstory and many hundreds of gigs (and potentially a refret). But I'm guessing it won't interest collectors.

[lemmywinks]

Upgrades are fine, I won't think twice about swapping something on my gigging basses as I'm the person using them, always keep the originals in case you sell it on though.

[Ed_S]

I like to find really cheap basses that just happen to have great necks, and then have fun replacing all the bits that were actively skimped on in order to have that standard of woodwork and fretwork at such a low price. In those cases I think the word 'upgrade' is more easily justified, but I do agree that it's important to make peace with the fact that a £200 bass with £200 of parts fitted and a load of time invested using expensive tools is still very often only worth £100.

 

All the same, if such a bass falls out of use or favour down the road, I prefer to send it off as-is and stand to a degree of loss - partly in the hope that it makes the new owner happy and perhaps lets them have something they otherwise couldn't, but mostly because taking something that I've made as good as I think it can be and then spending even more time to rip it apart and make it worse (even if only subjectively), I find to be the complete opposite of fun.

Edited 21 hours ago by Ed_S

[lemmywinks]

10 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

I like to find really cheap basses that just happen to have great necks, and then have fun replacing all the bits that were actively skimped on in order to have that standard of woodwork and fretwork at such a low price. In those cases I think the word 'upgrade' is more easily justified, but I do agree that it's important to make peace with the fact that a £200 bass with £200 of parts fitted and a load of time invested using expensive tools is still very often only worth £100.

 

All the same, if such a bass falls out of use or favour down the road, I prefer to send it off as-is and stand to a degree of loss - partly in the hope that it makes the new owner happy and perhaps lets them have something they otherwise couldn't, but mostly because taking something that I've made as good as I think it can be and then spending even more time to rip it apart and make it worse (even if only subjectively), I find to be the complete opposite of fun.

 

 

Yeah this, my backup bass is a cheapy which has a neck I love and a solid low B string. Swapped the tuners out for some Grover clones (tenner second hand on eBay) and stuck an expensive preamp in it (£150 used East Uni Pre off here) and will be using it as my main bass for some upcoming dep gigs as it sounds so good and feels great to play. Total cost was under £300 and it punches well above its weight.

 

If I sell it on the East is staying with me though!

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I was thinking for quite some time of tracking down a Squier Badtz Maru bass. Two main reasons ; 1) to see how I get on with a short scale for a change . 2) It's odd, collectable ( for some meaning I'd get my money back if I did sell ) and would be a  bass just to pickup and noodle . 
However , the more I looked at it  I see it as really a kiddies  beginners bass( which it is )  with awful tuning pegs and bridge .For the extortionate prices they go for now , I took a different route ..

 

I got a Squier Mini Bass instead , and for the £110 I paid it is brilliant ! I've just got to think of a sticker / stickers to put on the scratch plate .

It also saved me having to change the bridge and tuning pegs if I did get the Batz Maru . That's the kind of bass where mods can only benefit the bass.

[SimonK]

2 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

Upgrades are fine, I won't think twice about swapping something on my gigging basses as I'm the person using them, always keep the originals in case you sell it on though.

 

This makes total sense to me - upgrade/replace as needed for playing reasons, but keep the original parts and if/when things get sold on say why you did it. But don't be the person who tries to mark up a prce because they added some more expensive pickups just "because"!

[SH73]

I bought a bass on BC, the pickup was upgraded from SPB 1 to SPB 4, I didn't turn my nose up, the seller provided the original SPB 1, it was the bass paint job I was after not pick ups.

 

I changed pick ups on  a Squier jazz vintage C neck bass to SPB jazz pickups and don't regret it, I changed pickups on another precision bass and after a month I put the stock pups back.

I don't see any issue as long as seller points it out , and or supplies original parts.

 

[SimonK]

38 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

This makes total sense to me - upgrade/replace as needed for playing reasons, but keep the original parts and if/when things get sold on say why you did it. But don't be the person who tries to mark up a prce because they added some more expensive pickups just "because"!

 

Of course despite writing the above I do now recall changing the pickups in a Stratocaster for a set of Texas specials, and then putting the originals on a different strat that I wanted a more vintage sound for, and switching two from that strat into a Tele, and then generally losing track of which pickup started in which guitar - again not thinking about selling but can at least guaraantee Fender made US pickups in all three guitars but wouldn't be marketing any as "upgraded"!

 

Incidentally I've seen a few people try something similar with bass cabs, "upgrading" a speaker without perhaps realising the importance of cabs with ports being tuned for specific speakers...

[Obrienp]

I often modify basses with better parts. I always try to keep the original parts, unless they were replaced because they were defective. If/when I come to sell, I reinstall the original parts, not because of what the OP said but because you never recoup anything like what you spent. You get much more selling the parts on their own. 
 

The problem comes when you have to do a bit of woodwork to fit the upgrade parts. In that case you have to leave them on the instrument and hope the upgrade appeals to a buyer. I can understand why some people get put off by “upgrades”. Some are pretty bizarre and some are poorly executed.

[spongebob]

My main bass, my Ricky, has had a few mods that have changed it from stock.

 

I’m never selling it, so didn’t keep the original parts.

 

However, I have to agree - I’d never see what I’ve done as any kind of upgrade. It’s exists as the bass I want to own and play the bits off…..it’s changed, modified…..but upgraded? No. Just adpapted to my personal specs, which may not be for everyone. 

[Boodang]

Actually I’m with the op on this one. I bought a s/h squier bass recently not realising it had been upgraded. The new gotoh tuners worked brilliantly, the badass bridge awesome, the Aguilar pups were sublime, the sadowsky pre amp exquisite. 
What a git of a seller, sold me a piece of sh!t but turns out to be amazing. Ruined the whole experience for me. 

[Terry M.]

16 minutes ago, Boodang said:

Actually I’m with the op on this one. I bought a s/h squier bass recently not realising it had been upgraded. The new gotoh tuners worked brilliantly, the badass bridge awesome, the Aguilar pups were sublime, the sadowsky pre amp exquisite. 
What a git of a seller, sold me a piece of sh!t but turns out to be amazing. Ruined the whole experience for me. 

But I'm sure you can appreciate that not everybody likes Aguilar pickups or Sadowsky preamps? Which is why I think "upgrade" should be replaced with "modified." Either way it's good it worked out for you 👍

[Kevin Lilley]

I was conscious of that when I replaced the bridge on my 4003 Rickenbacker. It’s an 87 and I replaced the bridge with a Hipshot, but kept the original, including the screws. If I ever sell the Ric, which today is my number 1, both bridges will go with it. To me it was an upgrade, but to another, they may want the original bridge.

[dmccombe7]

I think the only changes i've made over the many years are :-

 

1. Warwick Thumb NT pre-amp failed. Warwick no longer produce the original EMG version and could only offer the MEC pre-amp. I had a luthier install it for me. Perhaps i should have gone for a new EMG pre but no matter it still sounds like the same bass.

 

2. Fender Mex PJ bridge mainly because the original saddles kept dropping and moving about. Put a fender hi-mass bridge on. I have kept the original and will sell with the bass. Don't think it would have made any difference to the sale price.

 

I also prefer buying standard original gear. You never know how a modified bass is gonna sound or whether or not the mods have been done to a decent standard.

My one exception would be a Stingray with a Status graphite neck but would want to try it first.

 

Dave

Edited 16 hours ago by dmccombe7

[chris_b]

My problem with "upgrades", "downgrades", "mods" etc, how do I know the knowledge, experience and skill set of the person making these changes?

 

Do they know what they are doing or are they enthusiastic idiots without a clue. . . . but still think they know what they are doing!!

 

My solution is to buy a bass that is exactly what I want in the first place.

[Terry M.]

5 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Perhaps i should have gone for a new EMG pre but no matter it still sounds like the same bass.

This must happen so much after making changes 🤔

[Terry M.]

13 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

My solution is to buy a bass that is exactly what I want in the first place.

This. 

[Obrienp]

Nice if you can get a bass that is exactly what you want. I guess that is why Public Peace has the Maruszczyk/Mensinger configurator and luthiers make a living in the face of cheaper mass produced products. Thing is, you pay a lot more for the individual parts that way.

[Boodang]

44 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

But I'm sure you can appreciate that not everybody likes Aguilar pickups or Sadowsky preamps? Which is why I think "upgrade" should be replaced with "modified." Either way it's good it worked out for you 👍

I think modified is a good term for pups and pre amp, but maybe upgrade for things like tuners and bridge.

[Terry M.]

5 minutes ago, Boodang said:

I think modified is a good term for pups and pre amp, but maybe upgrade for things like tuners and bridge.

Interesting. I would lump them all under "modified" just based on my personal experience over the years. I've never (from memory) had a bass that had tuners and a bridge that didn't do what they were designed to do. My issue if I had one had always been some other aspect. Again this is only my experience. I don't play and hold notes long enough for sustain to be a concern of mine. I understand this is one reason for bridge swaps.

[neepheid]

2 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Interesting. I would lump them all under "modified" just based on my personal experience over the years. I've never (from memory) had a bass that had tuners and a bridge that didn't do what they were designed to do. My issue if I had one had always been some other aspect. Again this is only my experience. I don't play and hold notes long enough for sustain to be a concern of mine. I understand this is one reason for bridge swaps.

 

Well, lucky you

 

[Boodang]

16 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

Interesting. I would lump them all under "modified" just based on my personal experience over the years. I've never (from memory) had a bass that had tuners and a bridge that didn't do what they were designed to do. My issue if I had one had always been some other aspect. Again this is only my experience. I don't play and hold notes long enough for sustain to be a concern of mine. I understand this is one reason for bridge swaps.

Actually I don’t think I can tell any audible difference between a standard bridge and a top end expensive one like a Babicz or a Badass but…. that’s to miss the point. They’re way better engineered and far better and easier to set up. A bit like tuners, do the same thing but better engineered, work smoother and just work better. Nothing to do with tone. 
So maybe modified is ‘tone’ and upgrade is bettered ‘engineered’. 

Edited 15 hours ago by Boodang

[Terry M.]

8 minutes ago, Boodang said:

So maybe modified is ‘tone’ and upgrade is bettered ‘engineered’. 

Good argument. I have however seen claims of pickguard swaps being upgrades along with stuff such as scrubbing off a Squier decal for a Fender one. Even attaching straplocks and adding a different design of fretboard dot markers. But I do like your point about the engineering aspect. 

[Obrienp]

Yep, a lot of people actually prefer the tone you get with a BBOT. I just appreciate the better engineered appearance of a Babicz, even the Fender high mass bridge (good value too).