Fender Ultra II - charging us more, giving us less.

[HeadlessBassist]

Anyone who's followed the gradual development of the Fender Jazz/Precision Deluxe/Elite/Ultra line will have noticed that there's an increasing cheapening of the brand going on. More and more, these instruments are being built down to a price. Similar to the motor manufacturers, they're gradually charging us more and giving us less.

 

Fender have obviously streamlined bass neck production in recent times. The part which really caught my attention was that the Ultra II now has the cheaper 'Skunk Stripe' neck construction with the truss rod hole above the nut, the same as every other Squier/Fender bass. Look back in time, and you may notice that the previous Ultras had the truss rod access at the bottom of the neck in the usual (difficult to get at) curved recess under the scratch plate. Then go back to the excellent Elite basses, which had a Music Man style truss rod wheel adjuster recessed at the bottom of the neck.

 

I played a couple of the early first generation Ultras not long after launch, and wasn't impressed. The instruments were badly set up, being practically unplayable and QC was definitely lacking in some areas. The Deluxe/Elite line had always produced some very good basses between 1995 and 2016 (I've personally owned a 2016 Elite Dimension and currently have a really nice 2004 small-body Jazz Deluxe), but the visible cost-cutting on the Ultra II is disappointing.

 

Maybe Fender needs to cheapen the brand with production cost cutting, but it is disappointing when we know some of the great stuff they can produce.

[itu]

18 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

Maybe Fender needs to cheapen the brand with production cost cutting...

Maybe they just try to get back to their roots, where low production price and cheap parts were Leo's driving force in production.

[Rayman]

I agree. Fender was the blue collar, bolt together utility guitar originally. Bins full of parts, manufactured at different times, assembled and shipped to ordinary folk. The folk that couldn’t afford a Gibson probably. 
 

My only Fender now, is a Mexican Player Plus Meteora. It’s absolutely outstanding to me, and I have absolutely zero aspiration to own its Ultra big brother. 

[JJMotown]

Where have you been for the past 60 years? Fender have been doing this since CBS.

[MartinB]

2 hours ago, HeadlessBassist said:

the Ultra II now has the cheaper 'Skunk Stripe' neck construction with the truss rod hole above the nut, the same as every other Squier/Fender bass.

It can't be that much cheaper - I've got three Chinese Squiers and none of them has a skunk stripe

[HeadlessBassist]

Depends on how many Mexicans are working at the Corona factory, I guess.

[Bernmeister]

I must confess that I have always had a Fender type bass in my arsenal.

Whether it was my 80’s jazz bass special or my customised Squire 4 string, fitted with a badass bridge, Emg preamp & pickups.

I’m also fortunate to be the owner of a Jazz V deluxe & an Elite V too. 
There has been an upgrade path over the years, namely the improved pickups, the aforementioned musicman styled truss rod adjuster at the bottom of the neck, plus a little lighter in weight compared to my Deluxe.

I been looking into the Ultra II model & although I was disappointed to see that they’ve reverted back to the method of positioning of how you adjust truss rod, I do like the new high mass bridge, especially as it now gives the option to string through the body, or bridge. The S1 active \ passive switching has been brought back in, for those who remember the mid nineties series of Fenders & the new mid boost frequency between 325hz or 750hz is another new thing. Along with the 

luminay side dots & tusq nut. So slight additions have been made. 

 

I’m guessing just like any type of manufacturing, raw materials & labour charges are ever increasing

 

[itu]

14 minutes ago, Bernmeister said:

I’m guessing just like any type of manufacturing, raw materials & labour charges are ever increasing

But as R&D costs as well as machinery have been paid decades ago, costs increase at a rate of inflation, or maybe less. Production costs are most likely as low as they can get. Of course there's always service work to keep the system working - every company has to do the same.

 

The speak about "ever increasing" is kind of contradictory. From the finance point of view costs have became lower: compare the price of a Jazz bass in the 1960's and today, and include wages to make a real comparison. My uneducated guess is that you can buy a decent instrument a lot cheaper today.

[gjones]

My Elite Precision's jack input failed a year after I bought it. I had great trouble finding the cheap, plastic, Fender branded, replacement to repair it. 

Edited Saturday at 15:25 by gjones

[Terry M.]

Just to help cure my genuine ignorance can I ask what is it in particular about the truss rod adjustment being down at the heel of the neck rather than up by the headstock that makes it more desirable? My Warwicks have them up by the headstock and I've never given it a second thought. What have I missed with this? I once had a Fender Classic 70s Jazz Bass that had the bullet truss rod adjustment up at the headstock and my tech when he set it up was wondering why Fender moved it as it was so accessible. 

 

The brand Alusonic seem to also have the adjustment at the headstock end along with Ken Smith. I know there are more.

Edited Saturday at 20:33 by Terry M.

[HeadlessBassist]

7 hours ago, Bernmeister said:

I must confess that I have always had a Fender type bass in my arsenal.

Whether it was my 80’s jazz bass special or my customised Squire 4 string, fitted with a badass bridge, Emg preamp & pickups.

I’m also fortunate to be the owner of a Jazz V deluxe & an Elite V too. 
There has been an upgrade path over the years, namely the improved pickups, the aforementioned musicman styled truss rod adjuster at the bottom of the neck, plus a little lighter in weight compared to my Deluxe.

I been looking into the Ultra II model & although I was disappointed to see that they’ve reverted back to the method of positioning of how you adjust truss rod, I do like the new high mass bridge, especially as it now gives the option to string through the body, or bridge. The S1 active \ passive switching has been brought back in, for those who remember the mid nineties series of Fenders & the new mid boost frequency between 325hz or 750hz is another new thing. Along with the 

luminay side dots & tusq nut. So slight additions have been made. 

 

I’m guessing just like any type of manufacturing, raw materials & labour charges are ever increasing

 

 

Yes, I guess inflation and cost of supply chain items will have a large part to play.

 

Oddly, the S1 switching (pre 2008 American Standards) was originally for series/parallel switching.

[HeadlessBassist]

2 hours ago, Terry M. said:

Just to help cure my genuine ignorance can I ask what is it in particular about the truss rod adjustment being down at the heel of the neck rather than up by the headstock that makes it more desirable? My Warwicks have them up by the headstock and I've never given it a second thought. What have I missed with this? I once had a Fender Classic 70s Jazz Bass that had the bullet truss rod adjustment up at the headstock and my tech when he set it up was wondering why Fender moved it as it was so accessible. 

 

The brand Alusonic seem to also have the adjustment at the headstock end along with Ken Smith. I know there are more.

The best iteration of the truss rod adjustment was the Music Man style wheel at the bottom of the neck - no messing around with detuning strings. You could set the truss rod with a small screwdriver, as opposed to the usual Alun key.

[Terry M.]

12 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

 

Oddly, the S1 switching (pre 2008 American Standards) was originally for series/parallel switching.

Oh that is odd that the S-1 is now active/passive. You're referring to the American Series as it was called. The series/parallel on a Jazz was very useful. If one didn't like it then simply don't activate it. Nothing was lost.

[HeadlessBassist]

1 minute ago, Terry M. said:

Oh that is odd that the S-1 is now active/passive. You're referring to the American Series as it was called. The series/parallel on a Jazz was very useful. If one didn't like it then simply don't activate it. Nothing was lost.

 

Agreed. I had a Candy Cola American Series with S1 (thanks for the correction. American Standard came out in 2008. Duh me! 

[Terry M.]

27 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

The best iteration of the truss rod adjustment was the Music Man style wheel at the bottom of the neck - no messing around with detuning strings. You could set the truss rod with a small screwdriver, as opposed to the usual Alun key.

I agree the wheel is very accessible as I've have Musicman basses in the past. So it's more of a convenience thing rather than being intrinsically better or worse? As long as the truss rod isn't frozen and moves freely in both directions as well as (hopefully) the infrequency of adjustments needed I personally don't really have a preference. The bullet adjustment at the top on some 70s and 70s Fender reissues wasn't too shabby I don't think. Thanks to IKEA I'm drowning in Allen keys.

Edited Saturday at 22:25 by Terry M.

[HeadlessBassist]

Just now, Terry M. said:

I agree the wheel is very accessible as I've have Musicman basses in the past. So it's more of a convenience thing rather than being intrinsically better or worse? As long as the truss rod isn't frozen and moves freely in both directions as well as (hopefully) the infrequency of adjustments needed I personally don't really have a preference. The bullet hole at the top on some 70s and 70s Fender reissues wasn't too shabby I don't think. Thanks to IKEA I'm drowning in Allen keys.

 

Ha! Yes, I have a lot of sets from B&Q - Typically, I need metric for most basses, but imperial for the American Fender stuff.

 

In fact, after leaving my Travelodge yesterday morning on the way to Petersfield, I happened on a traditional little DIY store run by a little old man in FourMarks near Alton, who sold me a small Philips Screwdriver for 70 pence. I gave him a pound and told him to keep the change, of course.

 

The two 9V batteries for the active preamp from Tesco Express cost me considerably more!

[Terry M.]

23 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

 

The two 9V batteries for the active preamp from Tesco Express cost me considerably more!

I literally bought two of these yesterday...from my Local Tesco Express!!! Spooky 😂

 

My wife bought me one of those bike multi-tool units from Decathlon of all places. It literally lives in my gig bag. It covers most eventualities I think. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 22:52 by Terry M.

[Terry M.]

46 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

 

Agreed. I had a Candy Cola American Series with S1 (thanks for the correction. American Standard came out in 2008. Duh me! 

https://www.fairdealmusic.co.uk/collections/bass-guitars/products/fender-jazz-bass-v-with-s-1-switch-in-sunburst-used

 

I literally tried this bass from this Birmingham based retailer and I tell you this, when I activated the S-1 switch I almost bought it on the spot the series sound that came from it. I'm still thinking about it.

[HeadlessBassist]

That one does look very nice, Terry. I don't particularly remember mine much - after a motherload of Jazzes, I'm still finding my nitro finish American Original hard to beat. I was playing my 2004 Butterscotch Blonde Deluxe in a session today and that was sounding very impressive, full and smooth,  but even that couldn't stand up to the American Original for sheer tone and fullness. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 23:08 by HeadlessBassist

[kodiakblair]

8 hours ago, Bernmeister said:

I’m guessing just like any type of manufacturing, raw materials & labour charges are ever increasing

We live in a time where manufacturing has never been cheaper or more productive.

 

Material cost of ash has dropped 25%, maple is down 30% from 2020. FMIC hourly rates are the same as 6 years ago, maybe longer.  

 

Fender charges what they think the market will pay and what will keep their books looking good for owner Servco Pacific Captital.

 

1 hour ago, HeadlessBassist said:

The best iteration of the truss rod adjustment was the Music Man style wheel at the bottom of the neck

An alteration to the system used by cheap Japanese guitars/basses of the 60's.

[Terry M.]

18 minutes ago, HeadlessBassist said:

I was playing my 2004 Butterscotch Blonde Deluxe in a session today and that was sounding very impressive

 

 

That butterscotch colour though 🤤

[HeadlessBassist]

11 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

That butterscotch colour though 🤤

 

It wouldn't have been my first choice, had it not played so beautifully well, but it's interesting, being a semi-transparent finish that you can see the grain through. 

[LeftyJ]

I can see where you're coming from. I've never tried an Ultra or Elite so I really can't comment on those. I really haven't been keeping up with Fender's USA basses range, because as a lefty, I've simply never encountered one out in the wild to try! However, I do have some experience with their USA guitars, having owned a '00 American Standard Tele (from just before the introduction of the American Series) and currently own a '20 Mod Shop Jaguar and a '23 American Professional II Jazzmaster and I must admit: while they're silly expensive new compared to the prices of 25 years ago, they're a huge step up in terms of fit, finish and QC. My Jazzmaster does have a very obvious flaw that should'nt have slipped through (it has a flipped righty nut, so the top is angled in the wrong direction!) but the necks on the newer guitars feel amazingly smooth and everything else is just impeccable.

 

I won't compare the Jaguar as it is a bit of an oddball, and I suspect the neck for the lefty Jaguars involves more manual labour, because the Mod Shop and the Custom Shop are the only routes to get a lefty 24" scale neck from Fender USA (there hasn't been a factory lefty USA Jaguar since 1975). 

 

Based on my experience with the Am Pro II Jazzmaster I don't really see the added value of the Ultra II over the Am Pro II aside from maybe the graphite rods in the neck and maybe the different electronics. 

[Terry M.]

1 hour ago, LeftyJ said:

 

 

Based on my experience with the Am Pro II Jazzmaster I don't really see the added value of the Ultra II over the Am Pro II aside from maybe the graphite rods in the neck and maybe the different electronics. 

I thought the Am Pro ii also had graphite rods. 

[LeftyJ]

48 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

I thought the Am Pro ii also had graphite rods. 

Oh, maybe the basses do. It's not mentioned in the specs of my guitar