Bow advice

[Burns-bass]

I’ve been off here for a while, but I’ve been dragged back in…

 

Anyway. I inherited a 3/4 French bow that was cheap. It’s not great but it’s ok while I learn.

 

I want to invest in a good mid-price bow and I would like your advice.

 

I’m currently motoring through the grades and want something for me to use as I push on to more complex and involved music.

 

I want do buy new and my budget can cover anything currently sold brand new. I don’t want a vintage or used bow.

 

 

[MattNags]

Try 

https://bowspeed.com

Bristol based bow specialist very good customer service

good luck

[Burns-bass]

7 hours ago, MattNags said:

Try 

https://bowspeed.com

Bristol based bow specialist very good customer service

good luck

I had no idea this shop existed. Thanks so much for this. I’ll pop in during the week.

[zbd1960]

You'll need a proper string specialist/dealer. They are thin on the ground and due to high street costs, some are now home based. There's Tim Toft in Stone in Staffs for example who does have a large shop and on-site team of luthiers. 

[Burns-bass]

22 minutes ago, zbd1960 said:

You'll need a proper string specialist/dealer. They are thin on the ground and due to high street costs, some are now home based. There's Tim Toft in Stone in Staffs for example who does have a large shop and on-site team of luthiers. 

 

Thanks for that. It seems Bristol has one of the UK's only bow shops and it's about 10 minutes from my house, so I'll start there (and probably finish there, too!).

[DS287]

Go to Bowspeed in Bristol. Let them know when your coming and what your budget it and they'll get put a selection out for you to try. 

They have bows from £90 to £££££s so set your budget carefully!!

I did this and even with zero bow experience I managed to get a nice bow that my teacher approves of. 

They will even let you take 3-4 home to try out for a few days.

Good luck!

Edited Saturday at 18:20 by DS287

[Owen]

If I had more money than sense then I would happily drop 5 figures on a bow. A really nice bow is a joy.

 

I would also get chests like Bowspeed have. They look lovely.

[NickA]

You can pay 25k for a new gold mounted wooden bow.  A really good carbon one is £7k.  Commissioning one from Andrew McGill in Banbury will be upwards of £3.5k ( and a long wait). You really want to spend that?

 

Go bowspeed, with your bass, try lots and dont rule out old ones.  They would send you four to try in fact, but you need to have a budget, so best to go in the shop and decide what your budget is

 

The problem being that every time you double your budget, you find something incrementally better!

 

Caswells have lots of mid range bows and probs better for new ones than bowspeed, they stock mid to high end carbon ones too.

 

My £1000 arcus S3 is pretty good tho.  Does me fine for orchestra and around grade 8 classical.  I may upgrade eventually but that's "want" not "need".

[zbd1960]

6 hours ago, NickA said:

You can pay 25k for a new gold mounted wooden bow.  A really good carbon one is £7k.  Commissioning one from Andrew McGill in Banbury will be upwards of £3.5k ( and a long wait). You really want to spend that?

 

Go bowspeed, with your bass, try lots and dont rule out old ones.  They would send you four to try in fact, but you need to have a budget, so best to go in the shop and decide what your budget is

 

The problem being that every time you double your budget, you find something incrementally better!

 

Caswells have lots of mid range bows and probs better for new ones than bowspeed, they stock mid to high end carbon ones too.

 

My £1000 arcus S3 is pretty good tho.  Does me fine for orchestra and around grade 8 classical.  I may upgrade eventually but that's "want" not "need".

I know.... I keep thinking about upgrading my cello bow. At the moment it's a Durfler bow with pernambuco stick, which was £450 back in 2011. I tried some bows up to £2,000 a few years ago but none 'spoke' to me.... I have a feeling I wasn't looking in the right price range...  

[Burns-bass]

8 hours ago, NickA said:

You can pay 25k for a new gold mounted wooden bow.  A really good carbon one is £7k.  Commissioning one from Andrew McGill in Banbury will be upwards of £3.5k ( and a long wait). You really want to spend that?

 

Go bowspeed, with your bass, try lots and dont rule out old ones.  They would send you four to try in fact, but you need to have a budget, so best to go in the shop and decide what your budget is

 

The problem being that every time you double your budget, you find something incrementally better!

 

Caswells have lots of mid range bows and probs better for new ones than bowspeed, they stock mid to high end carbon ones too.

 

My £1000 arcus S3 is pretty good tho.  Does me fine for orchestra and around grade 8 classical.  I may upgrade eventually but that's "want" not "need".

 

This is all good advice. 

 

The best value is always in the middle range. I'm not going to need a professional level bow, but that's because I couldn't justify it (both in terms of cost or ability), but something much better than the entry-level one I have and that I can grow with and will provide much greater feel and sound quality would make a huge difference. 

 

I ruled out old ones as I thought I was going to buy used sight-unseen, but now there's a shop I can visit, I'll see how things go there. Will update.

 

[philparker]

I think you're on a winner only being 10 minutes away from Bowspeed - it's a no-brainer really. You get to try out so many bows, I'm sure at least one will sing out to you.

[Burns-bass]

25 minutes ago, philparker said:

I think you're on a winner only being 10 minutes away from Bowspeed - it's a no-brainer really. You get to try out so many bows, I'm sure at least one will sing out to you.

I had no idea it existed! I did a gig two minutes away yesterday and went past it.

[Jakester]

I went to Bowspeed for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely fantastic that shops like this still exist. The wealth of knowledge Hamilton has is amazing and I could spend hours listening to him!

[Burns-bass]

15 minutes ago, Jakester said:

I went to Bowspeed for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely fantastic that shops like this still exist. The wealth of knowledge Hamilton has is amazing and I could spend hours listening to him!

I’m really excited to go, too. 
 

I’ve been racking up the gigs and all the cash goes into a pot. Seems quite funny all the money I spend will be earned playing 40s and 50s chess-era Blues for a delicate bow.

[NickA]

14 hours ago, zbd1960 said:

. I tried some bows up to £2,000 a few years ago but none 'spoke' to me.

I tried a £25,000 tubbs cello bow this year.  It spoke to me. It said:

 

"so much for your prejudice against fancy antique bows eh? ... I'm beautiful aren't I, and you'll never own anything as good.  Now piss off you rank amateur you".   

 

 

[DS287]

I went to Bowspeed with a modest budget of £300. I tried an about 20 bows from £90 up to £300 - even I could tell the differences with my very limited bow technique - I came away with the most expensive (and best) one of course!

[Owen]

1 minute ago, DS287 said:

I went to Bowspeed with a modest budget of £300. I tried an about 20 bows from £90 up to £300 - even I could tell the differences with my very limited bow technique - I came away with the most expensive (and best) one of course!

It is always the way. 

[Beer of the Bass]

Hmm, it's nice to see that Bowspeed stock as many German bows as they do, I'm used to just never seeing them. I remember reading an older British tutor book (might have been Eugene Crufts) that simply said "in Britain we play the French bow", but my first couple of lessons were on German and it stuck with me.

I'm still playing a very basic student bow that's probably not economically worth another rehair, so something even slightly nicer is on the wish list.

[zbd1960]

1 minute ago, Beer of the Bass said:

Hmm, it's nice to see that Bowspeed stock as many German bows as they do, I'm used to just never seeing them. I remember reading an older British tutor book (might have been Eugene Crufts) that simply said "in Britain we play the French bow", but my first couple of lessons were on German and it stuck with me.

I'm still playing a very basic student bow that's probably not economically worth another rehair, so something even slightly nicer is on the wish list.

Oddly, the viola da gamba (viol) which I also play, uses underhand bow. But in the viol world, it's not referred to as 'German' as it was the standard. There are different 'holds' the English one is the one advocated by Christopher Simpson, there is the French Forqueray hold, which mostly differs by rotating the wrist to apply more pressure on the bow hair. With the viol, your middle finger rests on the hair and so rotating the wrist anti-clock adds pressure to the bow hair.   

[NickA]

9 hours ago, zbd1960 said:

Oddly, the viola da gamba (viol) which I also play,

Another rabbit hole down which I just descended

 

Inherited.  I love the sound of well played viols but so far I'm strangling cats .. scratchy gut strings, upside down bow hold, up bows are down bows, enequal tuning and the good stuff written in a weird clef.  Spent an hour this morning replacing a fret gut and more time tuning it than playing it. No wonder the cello was invented.  But then I put on some Jordi Savall playing Anthony Holborne and off we go again.  

 

The bow hold is quite different from that of a German bass bow as you don't touch the frog and have a finger on the bow hair.  But you can see how one evolved into the other.

 

Long way before I'm buying it a better bow.