Tuning question

[FretsOnFire]

At our next rehearsal our guitarists are going to be playing songs that would normally be in E down to Eb.

 

I've no issue with this but don't want to make myself an idiot by asking this but anyways 😂 is it just a matter of playing the same notes that would be in E tuning for a song but just with my bass tuned down half a step?

 

Hope that makes sense 

[nige1968]

I imagine that's what they'll be doing. Whether you follow suit or not is up to you. It will make things much easier if you do the same, though who knows what you might discover through having to play in Eb in standard tuning?

[NJE]

I presume they are doing this to help with vocals? 
 

Yes you just play everything as you would have but because the guitars (and potentially) bass are dropped it will just lower everything for vocals by a semitone.

 

A few bands use Eb tuning, I used to play a few Stevie Wonder tunes and his bass player Nate Watts used to be in Eb. Playing those lines in standard tuning does make it a lot harder if there are open strings used in the basslines.

[James Nada]

Yep, unless you have perfect pitch, you don't really need to to worry.  Just tune each string down half a step and play 'as normal'.

 

Equipment wise, some people like to use a heavier guage string than 'normal' when tuning down.  I wouldn't worry about it though, I played the same gauge strings in Eb and E for years.  Technically, you might need to adjust your truss rod to compensate for the difference in tension.

This is all just stuff worth bearing in mind- I wouldn't worry about it for now, just see how you get on.

[Boodang]

Either detune a step and play like it's in E (the easiest solution) or standard tuning and play a lot of inversions (the interesting option). 

[FretsOnFire]

Thanks for the replies 👍 much appreciated 

[SumOne]

I assume they just have a couple of songs that go down as far as Eb for a few notes, so to hit that note you can do a few things:

• just tune that E string down half a step
• drop the E string to a D and play Eb on 1st fret (could get a Hipshot drop tuner if it's just to hit the occasional note, then switch back to normal tuning)
• tune all your strings down half a step to keep the same familiar patterns
• tune to BEAD so you have the familiar patterns - just everything is a string lower than normal.
• ....Or as @Boodang says - just keep normal tuning but play alternatives to that occasional low Eb (e.g. 5th, or octave up), I'd probably go for that - it seems a bit more confusing but in the long-run I think is less confusing than the alternatives.
• Or, in the long-run if playing lower than E is needed a lot then perhaps get a 5 string.

[Dan Dare]

7 hours ago, FretsOnFire said:

is it just a matter of playing the same notes that would be in E tuning for a song but just with my bass tuned down half a step?

 

Yes. I carry an additional bass tuned a semitone flat because our singer has a penchant for E flat, so some songs are in that key. I could jump up an octave for the tonic, but some bass parts don't sound right without the low root. Chic's "Good Times", which we play, is an obvious example.

 

She also sings some in B, so again, the flat-tuned instrument is handy because it puts those numbers in C fingering.

[Burns-bass]

My guitarist swaps between an E and and Eb tuned guitar. I’ve never found it a problem to adapt on my 4 string to be honest (or the need to detune), you just adapt as required. 
 

Of course, if you’re playing Hendrix or something that desperately needs that massive bottom end, you probably should detune (or use an octave pedal to give you a boost!)

[tauzero]

We play one song down a semitone, Sweet Child O'Mine. I have no problem playing it a semitone down but decided I'd use a pitch shifter (MS-60B) and relearn it in "proper" position for the odd occasion when I might play it with someone else.

[Bilbo]

Or get a five string....

 

You can just detune the E to Eb (or D) only and remember the other notes on the E string are now different (classical guitarists do this a lot) or you can detune to Eb Ab Db Gb and just play like everything is in E. 

[80Hz]

One additional observation - a lot of wind instruments, trumpets, saxophones, etc are tuned to flat keys, so it can make sense for the bass to be tuned to E flat so everyone can play in a relatively straightforward key signature. You will find some parts will sit "under the fingers" more easily that way, especially horn-heavy genres such as soul and RnB. I tend to keep one bass tuned to E flat for this reason.

[Norris]

44 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

You can just detune the E to Eb (or D) only and remember the other notes on the E string are now different (classical guitarists do this a lot) or you can detune to Eb Ab Db Gb and just play like everything is in E. 

This.

 

Commonly known as "drop tuning", just tune the whole thing down a semitone. You really won't notice the difference when you are playing unless someone tries to play along with you while still tuned to concert pitch. Our band has done it for years because it makes it easier on the aging vocal chords. One day we must tell the drummer...

[TimR]

3 hours ago, 80Hz said:

One additional observation - a lot of wind instruments, trumpets, saxophones, etc are tuned to flat keys, so it can make sense for the bass to be tuned to E flat so everyone can play in a relatively straightforward key signature. You will find some parts will sit "under the fingers" more easily that way, especially horn-heavy genres such as soul and RnB. I tend to keep one bass tuned to E flat for this reason.

 

The 60s and 70s tracks that were in Eb usually have basslines that use the A string 6th fret as the lowest Eb.

 

 

[80Hz]

5 minutes ago, TimR said:

The 60s and 70s tracks that were in Eb usually have basslines that use the A string 6th fret as the lowest Eb.

 

 

That'll give a nice juicy B flat on the E string, so I can appreciate why that would be a preferred "voicing". Maybe I'm wrong, I've just found certain tracks made more sense to me to tune down. I also say this as a four string player - with a five I'd probably stay in standard tuning.

[TimR]

27 minutes ago, 80Hz said:

 

That'll give a nice juicy B flat on the E string, so I can appreciate why that would be a preferred "voicing". Maybe I'm wrong, I've just found certain tracks made more sense to me to tune down. I also say this as a four string player - with a five I'd probably stay in standard tuning.

 

It's also worth noting that the bottom E on a bass is 2 octaves below the bottom E on a guitar. 

 

It's also lower than a lot of brass instruments.

 

The range of instruments across the arrangements was then already reasonably balanced. 

 

The average band's portable bass gear of the 60s and and 70s also didn't normally have the power to deliver huge bass. The gear I was regularly using in the mid 80s was 250W max but more often 100/125W combos. 

[Woodinblack]

13 minutes ago, TimR said:

It's also worth noting that the bottom E on a bass is 2 octaves below the bottom E on a guitar.

 

Is it? It isn't on any of mine!

[80Hz]

52 minutes ago, TimR said:

The range of instruments across the arrangements was then already reasonably balanced. 

 

 

Definitely agree on that point and I would venture that piano-based arrangements were the norm then, and that affected the sense of what was an appropriate range for the bass to be in (upright or not).

 

I wasn't around then but I doubt bass gear in the 60s and 70s would have struggled to reproduce one semitone lower than standard tuning.

 

[itu]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

It's also worth noting that the bottom E on a bass is 2 octaves below the bottom E on a guitar.

A g-word goes to 82.4 Hz, and a four string to 41.2 Hz. That's one octave.