Warwick 5 thumb

[Terry M.]

1 hour ago, eude said:

 

The sound was immense, they looks SO cool, but ergonomically, a very bad design compared to a lot of others out there, including other basses in the Warwick catalogue. 

From what I understand the Thumb was originally known as the JD bass after an American bass player based in Germany called John Davis.He seemingly had a hand in the design and development.Not only was he one of the actual singers of the lip syncing Milli Vanilli he was a slap and pop player hence the "Thumb". I believe the intention was to wear it high and play...with the thumb! This story won't make playing one any more comfy for those who find them challenging but it might explain the design to a degree. Definitely quite niche.Mine isn't going anywhere.

[itu]

52 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

I believe the intention was to wear it high and play...with the thumb!

They did an "enhancement" and "designed" the Corvette that looks a bit like a Gus bass. Every time I see a Thumb, I like it, but a Corvette makes me laugh.

 

Thumb is one good sounding bass, but the Dolphin was something I wanted, although never bought. They were expensive and rare from the start.

[Kev]

5 hours ago, Terry M. said:

I'm still yet to understand why electric basses that need amplification are judged acoustically. I'm always willing to learn however so what exactly am I missing with this? If the amplified sound is good isn't that the point?

Always the first test I give a bass.  If it doesn't sound good unplugged, it doesn't usually sound good amplified either, unless it's running something like EMGs.  Why? Don't know, but it's absolutely my experience of it.

[Misdee]

There's some synergy between the combination of very dense hardwoods used on the Thumb that gives it such a unique raunchy tone. It's nothing like Spector, that's for sure.  The pickup placement must contribute a lot, too. 

 

It would be great if Warwick could somehow get that same sound with a bass that's more comfortable to play. I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of mankind to come up with such a design. Just a thought.

 

Edited yesterday at 13:53 by Misdee

[Terry M.]

1 hour ago, itu said:

They did an "enhancement" and "designed" the Corvette that looks a bit like a Gus bass. Every time I see a Thumb, I like it, but a Corvette makes me laugh.

 

Thumb is one good sounding bass, but the Dolphin was something I wanted, although never bought. They were expensive and rare from the start.

Now it's the Dolphin I think looks weird. They sound really good though,went to a gig once and the bassist had a 5 string version.

[Kiwi]

5 hours ago, Terry M. said:

I'm still yet to understand why electric basses that need amplification are judged acoustically. I'm always willing to learn however so what exactly am I missing with this? If the amplified sound is good isn't that the point?

I think the point I was trying to make, perhaps poorly, is that there is a huge difference between how the Thumb sounds AND FEELS acoustically and what it sounds like amplified. Perhaps I"m still trying to get my head around the difference and I need more time with one to reach any kind of lasting insight.  I can't think of any other bass where I've felt like that.

[Terry M.]

30 minutes ago, Kev said:

Always the first test I give a bass.  If it doesn't sound good unplugged, it doesn't usually sound good amplified either, unless it's running something like EMGs.  Why? Don't know, but it's absolutely my experience of it.

I promise I'm not being deliberately obtuse here but I've heard this before and genuinely can't understand the point of testing a bass unplugged other than to get the feel of it. It doesn't mean you're wrong however so don't take it that way.

[Terry M.]

6 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

I think the point I was trying to make, perhaps poorly, is that there is a huge difference between how the Thumb sounds AND FEELS acoustically and what it sounds like amplified. Perhaps I"m still trying to get my head around the difference and I need more time with one to reach any kind of lasting insight.  I can't think of any other bass where I've felt like that.

I'm happy to have got this wrong but as I've said before I basically think the sound of an unplugged electric bass is irrelevant but are you saying you feel the Thumb bass even FEELS differently acoustically to when it's plugged in? When you arrive at more insight on this please let me know? I think my mental struggle with the sound is the sound shaping options available when plugged in versus unplugged. How for example can I expect the MEC preamp on my Warwicks to translate to them before they're even plugged in? Again I'm willing to learn.

[Kev]

28 minutes ago, Terry M. said:

I promise I'm not being deliberately obtuse here but I've heard this before and genuinely can't understand the point of testing a bass unplugged other than to get the feel of it. It doesn't mean you're wrong however so don't take it that way.

I guess its how the woods and general build of the bass resonates.  If its dead acoustically, that transfers through when amplified.  If its loud and alive, that seems to too.  The effect diminishes with active preamps and especially active pickups (I find anything with EMGs in the same positions sound the same).

[Terry M.]

2 hours ago, itu said:

They did an "enhancement" and "designed" the Corvette that looks a bit like a Gus bass. Every time I see a Thumb, I like it, but a Corvette makes me laugh.

 

I had to Google Gus basses. Isn't the Corvette design older?

[Rolf]

1 hour ago, Misdee said:

It would be great if Warwick could somehow get that same sound with a bass that's more comfortable to play. I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of mankind to come up with such a design. Just a thought.

I've been toying with the idea of building a Jazz bass with Thumb pickup placement, maybe even with a wenge neck, just to see if I could get someting similar sounding. It's somewhere on my very long list of future projects  

[Terry M.]

30 minutes ago, Kev said:

I guess its how the woods and general build of the bass resonates.  If its dead acoustically, that transfers through when amplified.  If its loud and alive, that seems to too.  The effect diminishes with active preamps and especially active pickups (I find anything with EMGs in the same positions sound the same).

Thanks Kev. I'll admit defeat on understanding/experiencing this one 😂

[eude]

6 minutes ago, Rolf said:

I've been toying with the idea of building a Jazz bass with Thumb pickup placement, maybe even with a wenge neck, just to see if I could get someting similar sounding. It's somewhere on my very long list of future projects  

I think the very dense body wood of a Thumb also contributes something, although, probably less on the bolt-on.

If you were to build a Jazz sized body with similar woods though, it would be a boat anchor!

[Kev]

It's getting dangerously close to a tone wood argument I'll admit  

[Kiwi]

1 hour ago, Terry M. said:

 are you saying you feel the Thumb bass even FEELS differently acoustically to when it's plugged in? 

No, not at all. Just sounds different because of the filtering by the electronics.  EMGs are quite bold sounding and have their own flavour.  Acoustically I can both hear and feel the amount of upper mids that are dampened by the amount of wenge and bubinga in the neck. In particular the wenge fingerboard will absolutely dampen some treble content.  You could try your Thumb bass against a Status Series II at some point acoustically and see what differences you can hear.

We've occasionally had discussions in this forum about the sound of backline and I've played through some bass rigs where it sounds like there's not just pillow over the speaker but a complete four poster bed.  I've been at a loss to understand how the owner can actually hear themselves on stage amongst all the cymbals and guitars.  And the answer is they can't but they are so used to it that playing based on hand position and the movement of their trouser legs is their normal and a yardstick for what sounds good to them.  Perhaps "good" really means normal.

[Rolf]

41 minutes ago, eude said:

I think the very dense body wood of a Thumb also contributes something, although, probably less on the bolt-on.

If you were to build a Jazz sized body with similar woods though, it would be a boat anchor!

Yeah, a bubinga Jazz body would probably have enough mass to catch smaller objects in its gravity field. But walnut or mahogany shouldn't be too bad. 

[Misdee]

1 hour ago, Rolf said:

I've been toying with the idea of building a Jazz bass with Thumb pickup placement, maybe even with a wenge neck, just to see if I could get someting similar sounding. It's somewhere on my very long list of future projects  

I think the bubinga  body adds a degree of compression to the tone. Don't some of the Moon Jazz-style basses have pickup placement similar to a Thumb, with the angled neck pickup? They definitely sound nothing like a Thumb.

 

A more comfy Thumb would need a bigger body with a longer top horn, but not a Corvette, because they are uncomfortable in their own right.

[TRBboy]

Thumb 5 BO was my first 'good' quality bass. Tried it on a shop around '97 and fell in love with the sound, and the looks and feel..... Sitting down. I preserved with it for about 5 years in amongst other basses, and then decided I couldn't get on with 5 strings. What I realised later, after playing lots of other 5 strings, was it was the ergonomics of that particular bass. With such a small body but a fairly heavy neck, it was prone to neck dive. The worst part of the ergonomics though is that because of the body proportions, first fret feels a country mile away, stood with it on a strap! Feels like it's a 48" scale length! 🤣

 

That sound though....

 

I swapped mine for a 4 string corvette, which still sounded and looked great, but was much more ergonomic.

 

There's no 'magic' about them tonally though, it's just down to the pickups, preamp, and location of the pickups. If you did the same thing in any bass shape it would sound essentially the same. 🤷

[eude]

24 minutes ago, TRBboy said:

Thumb 5 BO was my first 'good' quality bass. Tried it on a shop around '97 and fell in love with the sound, and the looks and feel..... Sitting down. I preserved with it for about 5 years in amongst other basses, and then decided I couldn't get on with 5 strings. What I realised later, after playing lots of other 5 strings, was it was the ergonomics of that particular bass. With such a small body but a fairly heavy neck, it was prone to neck dive. The worst part of the ergonomics though is that because of the body proportions, first fret feels a country mile away, stood with it on a strap! Feels like it's a 48" scale length! 🤣

 

That sound though....

 

I swapped mine for a 4 string corvette, which still sounded and looked great, but was much more ergonomic.

 

There's no 'magic' about them tonally though, it's just down to the pickups, preamp, and location of the pickups. If you did the same thing in any bass shape it would sound essentially the same. 🤷

Ryan Martinie has moved to Fodera from Warwick, his signature tone was always a Warwick Thumb, and yet, his Fodera sounds just the same, with a maple neck, korina body with a maple top.

The pickups are in that classic Thumb 5 position however, which like you say, has to be the secret sauce...

https://fodera.com/collections/signature-instruments-standard-series/products/ryan-martinie-black-beauty-standard-deposit

[Cosmo Valdemar]

2 hours ago, eude said:

Ryan Martinie has moved to Fodera from Warwick, his signature tone was always a Warwick Thumb, and yet, his Fodera sounds just the same, with a maple neck, korina body with a maple top.

The pickups are in that classic Thumb 5 position however, which like you say, has to be the secret sauce...

https://fodera.com/collections/signature-instruments-standard-series/products/ryan-martinie-black-beauty-standard-deposit

I don't think it sounds the same, although I've only got the YouTube demos to go by. They're in the same ballpark unsurprisingly but the Fodera doesn't seem to have any of the growl or aggression of the Thumb.

 

[Terry M.]

3 hours ago, TRBboy said:

There's no 'magic' about them tonally though, it's just down to the pickups, preamp, and location of the pickups. If you did the same thing in any bass shape it would sound essentially the same. 🤷

Hmmm I'm not so sure you know. I wouldn't necessarily use the word magic but I feel there's definitely a "formula" Warwick cooked up to create that sound. Obviously I don't know for sure but I've yet to hear anything else sound close to a Thumb. Those brass bell frets may even be a contributing factor and wood and fretboard choices. I could be wrong of course.

[Bassman68]

Maybe it’s just folklore but I’m sure I read it somewhere that the original Thumb bass was meant to be headless?
 

[Terry M.]

11 hours ago, Bassman68 said:

Maybe it’s just folklore but I’m sure I read it somewhere that the original Thumb bass was meant to be headless?
 

Interesting,I'd never heard this before. See attachment from Warwickforum.com 

 

[bassbora]

Just to chime in here with the acoustic part, it sounds great unplugged.  It depends mostly how old the strings are on it.  I have over the years spent a long time practicing unplugged and to me it sounded great.  Probably the biggest surprise is the B string.  It really sings (again depending on the strings).  I have had mine since 97 and its an 89 with EMGs.  I have over the last years used it as a backup but it still sounds great.  I prefer my Stage 2 and that has been my main bass for at least the past 10 years but the Thumb gets used sometime and often at practices.  

 

I totally understand why hate the shape. I am 6,1 so it does not feel like a problem to me.  What I have always loved about the Thumb is how well it responds to right hand technique. I have also started to change my preference for the pickup selection.  I have always just had the blend in the middle but I have started to favor the neck pickup more and more.  Maybe its me being older but I always hated that sound but now that is my preference. 

 

Just a last thing, I cant remember if anyone has mention how they sound as fretless.  I think they are amazing fretless instruments.  I think they really sing and shine there. I have an 89 6 string fretless and that is the best sounding bass I have played.  The tone is just perfect and again the B string is so clear and punchy. It does has that Thumb sound but just a little less than the 5er and that could very well being the pickups not being JJ.

 

I used the 5 at practice couple of days ago and I have been thinking about using that for the gig next weekend I enjoyed it that much.  Oh and I played few songs with a pick which I have not done for 25 years (I used to do it all the time) and again right hand technique and a pick, a whole rainbow of sounds opened up. 

[TRBboy]

15 hours ago, Terry M. said:

Hmmm I'm not so sure you know. I wouldn't necessarily use the word magic but I feel there's definitely a "formula" Warwick cooked up to create that sound. Obviously I don't know for sure but I've yet to hear anything else sound close to a Thumb. Those brass bell frets may even be a contributing factor and wood and fretboard choices. I could be wrong of course.

Without wanting to get into 'the debate that shall not be debated', on a solid body electric instrument, the tone all comes from the pickups, electronics and strings, and of course the player/technique. 

 

Now, as a caveat to that, we have 5 senses which all work in conjunction to form perception of our surroundings. Whilst the wood itself might not contribute to the actual tone we hear, the haptic feedback we receive through our hands and bodies from the instrument helps to form our 'perception' of the tonality of the instrument. IIRC back in my Warwick playing days, they always felt very lively and vibrant due to the very hard, dense tropical hardwood used. 

 

I would almost guarantee though that if you put the same pickups, in exactly the same position, and preamp and strings on any other bass, with the setup the same, you wouldn't tell the difference on a recording.