Channel eq and monitoring questions - eq and XR18, but maybe more general

[Steve Browning]

I am doing some initial set up work with my XR18 and have a question.

 

The band will convene (soon) to do the setting of levels for mics etc. Can I set up a vocal channel eq and save it, working on  the principle that it is mainly overall room acoustics that will need tweaking thereafter(at each venue)?

 

Similarly, can I ring out the monitors just once and work on the assumtion that mic/monmitor placings are going to be pretty similar going forward?

 

Probably 'no' to both questions, but I thought I'd ask.

[Phil Starr]

The general principle with live sound is to make sure the sound going to your mixer output is as good as you can get it and then send that sound out at every gig, then the only thing you would have to do at each gig is to set the overall level and use the graphic eq on the output to compensate for the room acoustics. Your approach is textbook so not only can you set all the levels eq and fx at rehearsals you should aim to do this.

 

There are a couple of assumptions here. The first is that everything is miked up and that any backline is for on-stage monitoring only and the audience are hearing only the FOH though the PA. If, say, a guitarist is setting their own levels with their AC30 cranked to 'give the right tone' then you have that to compensate for. Backline bass is even more problematic as bass is very susceptible to room and stage acoustics. The second assumption is that you are mixing from on stage and don't have a sound engineer sitting permanently at the desk. You can't tweak FOH from on stage so set and forget is going to beat fiddling every time. If you have a jockey riding the board then they can potentially tweak for all sorts of reasons possibly from song to song if they really know your set.

 

Monitors are slightly more tricky, space considerations come into play and you may not be able to measure out their placement exactly as you want and a boomy space may lead you to want to adjust the eq but in principle I'd aim for consistency set to set. Of course you can hear the monitors and poor monitoring won't affect the audience so you can fiddle with more effect, even so I will set and forget for most gigs. The sooner you get to using in-ears the sooner you lose this problem.

 

One word of caution, I never use compression on any of the mics, that will guarantee you less gain before feedback at most venues. If you are using pre-sets on mic channels you might want to turn any compression off. You'll also want to be aware of any boosts to frequency you have applied to the vocal mics in particular as stage acoustics will vary venue to venue. If one mic in particular feeds back check it isn't at the frequency you boosted in the rehearsal room.

 

so basically yes to both questions and when you get that perfect sound at a gig make sure you save it

[Steve Browning]

Brilliant, Phil (as always). Thank you. I note your comments re compression and will act accordingly.

[Phil Starr]

Oh I asked for help on using reverb and delay when I was setting up my mixes and got this advice from @VTypeV4 It's now my standard set up for live vocals with the sends and returns adjusted to suit, basically quite a lot applied to my own bvs where I'm just filling out the sound and a bit less to the lead vocals. I find the delay particularly helpful for the bv's.

 

"My personal starting points are usually a short-ish plate or hall reverb of around 1.2s - give or take - and then in addition to this a short delay with 180ms (or thereabouts) time with around 30% feedback. These are approximate settings and won't work on everything all the time (plus different fx units have their own sound too) so you'll no doubt find some vocals will lean towards sounding better with less of one / more of the other and vice-versa - adjust to suit the sends / returns to suit.

 

Good luck. 😃"

 

Here's the original thread 

 

Edited March 13 by Phil Starr

[JPJ]

11 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Oh I asked for help on using reverb and delay when I was setting up my mixes and got this advice from @VTypeV4 It's now my standard set up for live vocals with the sends and returns adjusted to suit, basically quite a lot applied to my own bvs where I'm just filling out the sound and a bit less to the lead vocals. I find the delay particularly helpful for the bv's.

 

"My personal starting points are usually a short-ish plate or hall reverb of around 1.2s - give or take - and then in addition to this a short delay with 180ms (or thereabouts) time with around 30% feedback. These are approximate settings and won't work on everything all the time (plus different fx units have their own sound too) so you'll no doubt find some vocals will lean towards sounding better with less of one / more of the other and vice-versa - adjust to suit the sends / returns to suit.

 

Good luck. 😃"

 

Here's the original thread 

 

And with vocal reverb I always recommend using the “Abbey Road” technique of using HPF & LPF on the reverb so that the reverb only works on the mid-range and use the pre-delay to separate the reverb from the initial clean vocal.

[Chienmortbb]

What could you do if your mixer does not ( yet) have pre-delay. Is there anything else you can do? 

[VTypeV4]

On 13/03/2025 at 22:10, Phil Starr said:

Oh I asked for help on using reverb and delay when I was setting up my mixes and got this advice from @VTypeV4 It's now my standard set up for live vocals with the sends and returns adjusted to suit, basically quite a lot applied to my own bvs where I'm just filling out the sound and a bit less to the lead vocals. I find the delay particularly helpful for the bv's.

 

"My personal starting points are usually a short-ish plate or hall reverb of around 1.2s - give or take - and then in addition to this a short delay with 180ms (or thereabouts) time with around 30% feedback. These are approximate settings and won't work on everything all the time (plus different fx units have their own sound too) so you'll no doubt find some vocals will lean towards sounding better with less of one / more of the other and vice-versa - adjust to suit the sends / returns to suit.

 

Good luck. 😃"

 

Here's the original thread 

 

 

Happy to have helped, Phil - hope others find it of use. 👍

[JPJ]

5 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

What could you do if your mixer does not ( yet) have pre-delay. Is there anything else you can do? 

Good question, I’d probably decrease the decay to shorten up the reverb to stop it getting too muddy. To be fair, if you have eq’d it with the HPF/LPF combination, the pre-delay is a bit of a nice to have. 

[VTypeV4]

On 15/03/2025 at 09:31, Chienmortbb said:

What could you do if your mixer does not ( yet) have pre-delay. Is there anything else you can do? 

 

Maybe there's a delay on the return channels? The Yamaha's very usefully have delay on all I/O. Try starting with around 20ms if it's an option and see how you go from there - there's no true right or wrong here, just use your ears to judge..