Westone "The Rail" Bass - A down to earth question

[rwillett]

56 minutes ago, 3below said:

@Happy Jack could help resolve the earthed / not earthed question with a quick multimeter continuity check.  I suspect unearthed.  Another solution would be to use an active EMG pickup, fit the battery inside the sliding part, no need for an earth.

Oddly enough I have that sitting on my desk

[Woodinblack]

9 minutes ago, rwillett said:

We are going slightly off topic here, but I'm interested in safety as its me. A statement such as "There is no safety issue (and an argument the other way)" could do with being expanded as I couldn't see anything that said grounding the bridge could be dangerous.

 

If your amps ground wasn't connected (and I have had several that weren't) and it accidently became live, if your ground is connected on the guitar then the strings would be connected to live. If they weren't, even in that situation, you woudn't be harmed.

Unlikely to happen as much these days as we have sealed plugs* but I see no possible safety issue on a guitar not be grounded, just a noise one.

 

I have seen two amps that I have looked at that had miswired plugs. Almost noone checks when buying an amp or power supply the plug wiring to check it is ok.

[prowla]

6 minutes ago, rwillett said:

 

When I searched for this earlier, a lot of the responses say that the bridge should be grounded. A few say it makes no difference but a number of sites state it is essential to reduce hum and for safety.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=do+guitar+bridges+need+to+be+grounded+safety&num=10&client=firefox-b-d&uact=5&oq=do+guitar+bridges+need+to+be+grounded+safety

 

We are going slightly off topic here, but I'm interested in safety as its me. A statement such as "There is no safety issue (and an argument the other way)" could do with being expanded as I couldn't see anything that said grounding the bridge could be dangerous.

 

I am not an expert in electrical stuff, so I'm trying to follow best practise here. I recognise that t'internet is sometimes wrong so I'd be interested in finding out why.

 

Thanks

Rob

 

 

There is good cause for the bridge (& strings) being earthed.

However, strap buttons are standalone and so don't need it.

A downside of the bridge (and strings) being earthed is that if anything live touches you whilst playing, you're the route to Gnd.

That happened to me on stage once - the singer's mic was live, he put his arm around me, there was a bang, and the venue's lights went out!

(I spent the next band practice checking & rewiring all of the extension leads: some had loose connections and there was even one with a plug at each end which plugged live into a socket on another piece of kit.)

I suppose if the bridge hadn't been earthed then nothing would've happened.

[neepheid]

12 minutes ago, rwillett said:

A few say it makes no difference but a number of sites state it is essential to reduce hum and for safety

 

The Internet, in microcosm, basically.

[SpondonBassed]

10 hours ago, crazycloud said:

Better still a real vintage Fender, just to hear the lamentations of their women.

 

Are you paying?

 

I'm in for a bit of that if you are.  I mean, KLF burnt a million pounds so I feel it's a relativity minor offence to the sensibilities of the delicate flowers who collect antiques, bless 'em.

 

Back to Rob for his project now...

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

If Jack (a) had a multimeter, and (b) had the slightest idea how to use one, then no doubt Jack could indeed do this thing.

 

Drop it off at mine and I'll take good care of that for you.  You can have it back for the weekend (...not saying which one mind).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SpondonBassed]

1 hour ago, rwillett said:

t'internet is sometimes wrong

 

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, prowla said:

There is good cause for the bridge (& strings) being earthed.

However, strap buttons are standalone and so don't need it.

 

But if the bridge and strings aren't grounded, they too are 'standalone' because they are not connected to anything.

 

Indeed, some of my amps are double insulated so they have no earth connection. The instrument is therefore not grounded either.

 

In fact, if it was a safety requirement for guitars etc. To be grounded then something far more reliable  than a 1/4" jack lead would be required.

[Bassassin]

7 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

I originally found this link on Flat Eric's blog, and a very fine read it is too.

 

https://westone.forumotion.com/t971-westone-us-design-development-history

 

That's interesting - I don't think I've seen this before. There's been a tendency to assume, America being America, that UK Westones were an afterthought/poor relation to the SLM/Electra Westones in the US, which were a little different to the versions we got. Interesting to discover that the Electras were based on the existing UK market range & there was no actual duplication of the existing models once Electra Westone was launched.

[itu]

On 14/03/2025 at 10:07, Happy Jack said:

I originally found this link on Flat Eric's blog, and a very fine read it is too.

 

https://westone.forumotion.com/t971-westone-us-design-development-history

Very interesting side notes about modern instrument building with CNC machines. Prices of Sires, HBs and alike become more understandable.

[Hellzero]

I also owned a brand new red Westone "The Rail" in ... 1992 and I've always been picky about ground noise.

 

The one I had had no ground issues, but when locking the pickup block into the desired position, I always noticed a kind of spring resistance with the knob, so I guess the metal tubes were grounding the bridge and that the locking screw was in contact with the output jack ground through a wire soldered to the metallic thread of that locking system.

 

As a side note, the screw was bare and leaving slight marks on the metallic lower tube where the contact was made.

 

That said a good grounded shielding of the pickup cavity helps a lot too.

[rwillett]

4 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

I also owned a brand new red Westone "The Rail" in ... 1992 and I've always been picky about ground noise.

 

The one I had had no ground issues, but when locking the pickup block into the desired position, I always noticed a kind of spring resistance with the knob, so I guess the metal tubes were grounding the bridge and that the locking screw was in contact with the output jack ground through a wire soldered to the metallic thread of that locking system.

 

As a side note, the screw was bare and leaving slight marks on the metallic lower tube where the contact was made.

 

That said a good grounded shielding of the pickup cavity helps a lot too.

 

Thats helpful and does seem to indicate that the screw was connecting and possibly grounding on the metal tube.

 

I've worked out a way to do it that isn't too complex (or I think I have).  I'll build this from the pickup outwards. I have a a choice on an Ibanez neck of some description or an Aria PRO II Std one with Hipshots. One advantage of a rail design is that its quite easy to adapt between headless and normal necks. I suspect though that it might be headless though and the Ibanez might be sacrificed here.

 

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

 

Rob