Pickups

[JPJ]

What’s everybody’s go to choice for a gigging piezo pickup on your double bass?

I’m currently using the J-Tone big double but find it hard to eq out the fretless bass tone and get some ‘air’ in my out front sound. 
So before disappearing down a rabbit hole, I thought I’d asked you more knowledgeable ladies and gents for your thoughts and recommendations. 

[warwickhunt]

I've got a pup fixed (removable in 30 seconds) to my DB which NEVER sees the light of day, you're more than welcome to take it off/away and play with it for a day/week/month...   

 

Coffee always on stand by.   

[Rosie C]

I use a Realist Lifeline. It does need an adjustable bridge, but it's fairly quick to remove/replace. Before that I had a Realist Copperhead which goes under a bridge foot, which sounded just as good - though I read there are only so many times it can be removed & refitted.

 

 

[pete.young]

Gave up with piezo because of feedback problems. I now use a Krivo.

[tinyd]

+1 on the Realist Lifeline. I've tried quite a few pickups over the years and this one is my favourite so far although I also have a J-Tone as a backup. With careful EQ (i.e. killing the mids) I can get the Lifeline away from that "fretless" bass tone so it sounds pretty natural.

Edited March 18 by tinyd

[TheRev]

The sound of wing mount piezos will vary with fit - too tight and they sound very mid-focussed. You could try widening the slot in the bridge wing to give a looser fit and see if that gets closer to the sound you want.

[Beedster]

Standard mic pointed at the bridge these days, fed up with expensive, fragile, unpredictable, and ultimately dissatisfying DB PUPs. The mic in question was until recently a rather lovely Heil PR-40 but frankly for live work a cheaper Shure (SM57/58) works just fine. 

[NickD]

I'm pleased with the Lifeline. It's a touch more defined on my bass than the copperhead, a little less dark. Also, it seems to have a higher feedback threshold, which is a bonus.

[NickA]

Wing pickups ( shadow or Underwood) tend to clacky, hard to fit well, harder to tweak the sound once you've filed the wings out to fit them.

 

Realist copperhead good, can be a bit dark but once it works it works. I borrowed a bass with both wing and copperhead and mixed the two; that was good, but a lot of faff.

 

Not tried the full circle. 

 

I use a realist sound clip which sounds brilliant on my particular bass, very tweakable as you can change the position, the contact force and various counter-weights to lighten and darken the sound, and/or use a bit of rubber to soften any harshness.  BUT you take it on and off and it doesn't quite always go back perfectly.  Brill for people who like to meddle (IE me) less so if you want fit and forget.

 

Mikes = expensive black art, but undoubtedly good.

 

 

[Burns-bass]

17 minutes ago, NickA said:

Wing pickups ( shadow or Underwood) tend to clacky, hard to fit well, harder to tweak the sound once you've filed the wings out to fit them.

 

Realist copperhead good, can be a bit dark but once it works it works. I borrowed a bass with both wing and copperhead and mixed the two; that was good, but a lot of faff.

 

Not tried the full circle. 

 

I use a realist sound clip which sounds brilliant on my particular bass, very tweakable as you can change the position, the contact force and various counter-weights to lighten and darken the sound, and/or use a bit of rubber to soften any harshness.  BUT you take it on and off and it doesn't quite always go back perfectly.  Brill for people who like to meddle (IE me) less so if you want fit and forget.

 

Mikes = expensive black art, but undoubtedly good.

 

 

Echo all this.

 

Don’t underestimate the importance of a good pre-amp when building your amplified DB setup (this isn’t for you but the OP!)

[JPJ]

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

Echo all this.

 

Don’t underestimate the importance of a good pre-amp when building your amplified DB setup (this isn’t for you but the OP!)

I think I’ve got this covered as I’m using the EBS Stanley Clarke pre

[Rosie C]

2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Don’t underestimate the importance of a good pre-amp when building your amplified DB setup (this isn’t for you but the OP!)

 

I tend to connect my pickup to a Boss GEB-7 EQ which works as basic pre-amp / impedance matching and I can turn down the very lowest band to stop feedback. 

[Burns-bass]

32 minutes ago, JPJ said:

I think I’ve got this covered as I’m using the EBS Stanley Clarke pre

Me too!

 

Wonderful piece of kit.

[Burns-bass]

It’s perhaps worth explaining what kind of tone you want and the type of music you’re playing. If it’s thumping classic blues you’ll need one thing, or if it’s delicate jazz you’ll need another.

I found wing pickups to be a nightmare, especially when amplified at volume. They’re also precarious if you move the bass around a lot (which I do to gigs and practices).

 

Copperhead is a good bet and an affordable piezo. (I’m selling one but that’s not why I’m saying this.)

 

As Chris and the rest have said, can become an expensive game chasing tone. 

[NickA]

Much as I'd like a Stan Clarke pre to play with .. the input impedance of a decent modern amp is totally piezo friendly.  PJB and Markbass amps both have a high impedance input ( gain switch to passive on PJB) and a built in HPF.. the rest is bass geekery (and nothing wrong with that imo).

 

£340 tho...ooh.

[JPJ]

19 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

It’s perhaps worth explaining what kind of tone you want and the type of music you’re playing. If it’s thumping classic blues you’ll need one thing, or if it’s delicate jazz you’ll need another.

I found wing pickups to be a nightmare, especially when amplified at volume. They’re also precarious if you move the bass around a lot (which I do to gigs and practices).

 

Copperhead is a good bet and an affordable piezo. (I’m selling one but that’s not why I’m saying this.)

 

As Chris and the rest have said, can become an expensive game chasing tone. 

So the musical style is Americana/Country - female fronted acoustic trio. I guess what I’m looking for is an accurate reproduction of the acoustic sound of my bass rather than sounding like a fretless bass. I can get a good enough sound with the J-Tone’s and the Stanley Clarke but it just lacks what I misdescribe as the acoustic ‘air’

[Beedster]

Just now, JPJ said:

So the musical style is Americana/Country - female fronted acoustic trio. I guess what I’m looking for is an accurate reproduction of the acoustic sound of my bass rather than sounding like a fretless bass. I can get a good enough sound with the J-Tone’s and the Stanley Clarke but it just lacks what I misdescribe as the acoustic ‘air’

That’s why I use a mic, IMO you don’t get air without one

[JPJ]

3 minutes ago, NickA said:

Much as I'd like a Stan Clarke pre to play with .. the input impedance of a decent modern amp is totally piezo friendly.  PJB and Markbass amps both have a high impedance input ( gain switch to passive on PJB) and a built in HPF.. the rest is bass geekery (and nothing wrong with that imo).

 

£340 tho...ooh.

As I used to double on fretless bass and EUB the Stanley Clarke was the obvious choice for me, especially as I’m gigging more frequently without any form of backline and using IEM’s. Price isn’t too bad compared with other boutique pedal board preamp pedals, especially those with a full two channels.

[Beer of the Bass]

I'm not sure piezo pickups are the place to look for "air", but that said, the J-Tone Big pickups do have quite a thick, midrangey tone that can come across as a little electric - it's perfectly usable, but you may find you like others better. And a lot of players find they prefer a single element pickup to one with two sides - I would try the J-Tone with one element hanging loose first just to determine if that's a good direction to head in.

I'm getting results I'm quite happy with using the KNA DB-1. As pickup sound goes, it's fine, and the high end is more open sounding than I got with a single element J-Tone on the same bass. But both the fit and the way a pickup responds on your specific bass can be extremely variable, so don't take that as a firm recommendation!

[Beer of the Bass]

Though if you're an acoustic trio without drum kit or backline amps on stage, that's probably as close to an ideal scenario as you'll find for making a mic work. If you don't want to spring for expensive dedicated bass mics, various dynamic mics can work well - the venerable SM57, or a side address dynamic like the Sennheiser e609 or Superlux PRA628 wrapped in foam under the bridge or tailpiece. A few bassists on Talkbass are mounting the Sennheiser e604 on the string afterlengths too.

[petebassist]

10 hours ago, Beedster said:

That’s why I use a mic, IMO you don’t get air without one

Concur with this. I can get away with a Realist Lifeline in a live setting with a full band when I'm using my Roland keys amp. To record, I always use my AMT mic, which gives the 'air'/full acoustic bass sound.

On previous threads about this people mentioned using stuff like a Tone Dexter II from audio sprockets to replicate that with piezo pickups - but I haven't used one.

[Beedster]

9 hours ago, Beer of the Bass said:

Though if you're an acoustic trio without drum kit or backline amps on stage, that's probably as close to an ideal scenario as you'll find for making a mic work. If you don't want to spring for expensive dedicated bass mics, various dynamic mics can work well - the venerable SM57, or a side address dynamic like the Sennheiser e609 or Superlux PRA628 wrapped in foam under the bridge or tailpiece. A few bassists on Talkbass are mounting the Sennheiser e604 on the string afterlengths too.

 

11 minutes ago, petebassist said:

Concur with this. I can get away with a Realist Lifeline in a live setting with a full band when I'm using my Roland keys amp. To record, I always use my AMT mic, which gives the 'air'/full acoustic bass sound.

On previous threads about this people mentioned using stuff like a Tone Dexter II from audio sprockets to replicate that with piezo pickups - but I haven't used one.

 

Yep, you're in a very good environment to experiment. I'm sure people have a lot of opinions on the pros and cons, but something I love about using a fixed mic as that I can very volume, tone, and of course feedback, by moving the instrument itself, as opposed to adjusting preamp settings or PUP/on-board mic positioning. OK, a lot of it will depend on various player/music/band/venue-specific factors (there we some venues for example where there simply was not sufficient room for an extra mic stand, and there's a down side in that unconscious movement of the bass can lead to unplanned/unwanted variation, but I much prefer it to using PUPs onboard mics given the opportunity, and IME the amplified tone of the instrument can be a whole lot better for it  

[NickD]

34 minutes ago, petebassist said:

 

On previous threads about this people mentioned using stuff like a Tone Dexter II from audio sprockets to replicate that with piezo pickups - but I haven't used one.

I have the Tonedexter 2, and I'm pretty happy with it. I trained it with the Lifeline and a Remic red, a T-Bone and an SM 57. I ran it on a run of festivals last summer (mandolin/octave mandolin, vox, drums and bass) and I felt that it sounded good. 

 

There have been a number of updates rolled out since last spring when I got it too. Apparently they've improved the accuracy of the training algorithm, added a 90 second looper so you can playback after training and dial in EQ, HPF, etc , to your taste, and they've added reverb options too. I've not had chance to experiment with any of that stuff yet though, but I plan to get down to the rehearsal space and spend a few hours trying to get if even better for this summer.

[Beedster]

8 minutes ago, NickD said:

I have the Tonedexter 2, and I'm pretty happy with it. I trained it with the Lifeline and a Remic red, a T-Bone and an SM 57. I ran it on a run of festivals last summer (mandolin/octave mandolin, vox, drums and bass) and I felt that it sounded good. 

 

There have been a number of updates rolled out since last spring when I got it too. Apparently they've improved the accuracy of the training algorithm, added a 90 second looper so you can playback after training and dial in EQ, HPF, etc , to your taste, and they've added reverb options too. I've not had chance to experiment with any of that stuff yet though, but I plan to get down to the rehearsal space and spend a few hours trying to get if even better for this summer.

Just when I thought I was GAS-free 🤔

[PaulKing]

For roots / blues / Americana / pop:

Always found Underwood simple to fit (if you do it slowly and carefully), very forgiving, secure for gigging, easy to dial good tone from. That's my go to.

Shadow is a good second best - almost indistinguishable and has advantage of single paddle. KNA DB-1 is surprisingly good for the price (although it used to be even cheaper than £60...).

Yes pre-amp is important, esp if you have standard low-impedance inputs. With Markbass or Fender Rumble you get a perfectly good tone plugging Underwood straight in.

 

Feedback is barely an issue with some EQ and a pair of f-hole plugs.

 

Edited March 19 by PaulKing