Separate preamp/power amp question. I want more volume...

[Chienmortbb]

4 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

How do you get output without gain? Must be a definition problem.

You could have a unity gain amplifier. 

[Downunderwonder]

2 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

You could have a unity gain amplifier. 

Aka EQ unit?

[Jack]

14 hours ago, agedhorse said:

It's NOT gain that's the issue, it's the maximum output level which is an entirely different parameter. 

Ok, I'll take one for the team. I would assume that those specs are somewhat linked, with the amount of gain on tap allowing you essentially a better chance of reaching the required output level. Obviously, this depends on the input. Can you elaborate a little more please?

[bremen]

Gain/max level: 

 

Here's a pedal with 40dB gain . (amplifies the signal voltage x100)and a 9V battery. So put 10mV in, get 1V out. Happy days.

But put 100mV in you won't get 10V out - the 9V battery is inadequate.

Simillarly, increase the gain to 60dB and put 10mV in - still can't gey 10V out.

 

Now if that pedal has an output impedance of 10k (the equivalent of a 10k resistor in series) and the following power amp an input impedance of 10k, those two resistors form a potential divider which halves the signal, taking us even further from sonic satisfaction.

 

 

[Jack]

Ok, that's pretty much as I understood it then, they are linked but there's a limit.

[agedhorse]

On 03/04/2025 at 13:37, Downunderwonder said:

How do you get output without gain? Must be a definition problem.

(Voltage) Gain is output level divided by input level. 
 

Maximum output level it the voltage that an output can deliver without clipping. 
 

You can have high gain but all it does is clip because there’s not enough output level to reproduce the unclipped signal, that’s the basis for distortion pedals. 
 

The two parameters are relatively unrelated, you can look this up on a good engineering website. 

Edited 1 hour ago by agedhorse

[agedhorse]

16 hours ago, Jack said:

Ok, I'll take one for the team. I would assume that those specs are somewhat linked, with the amount of gain on tap allowing you essentially a better chance of reaching the required output level. Obviously, this depends on the input. Can you elaborate a little more please?

Maximum output level depends on the capability of the output stage, it has to have enough voltage swing capability to reproduce whatever input level x gain requires for undistorted or unclipped output.