How much backing track is too much?

[SteveXFR]

Tonight I saw a metal band who had a guitarist,singer, drummer and bassist on stage. Throughout their set, I could clearly hear a second guitar (lead), synth, backing vocals and possibly extra drums. It was all their own original music. 

It seemed like too much of what I was hearing wasn't live. What's the opinion on this?

Edited Sunday at 07:00 by SteveXFR

[Norris]

I'm generally not a fan, but can understand that situations and budget can dictate their use in some circumstances. We've certainly never considered it in our trio.

 

I'm also not really a fan of the incognito sidemen. To show the way to do that, I saw The Darkness the other night. The shadowy guitarist/mandolinist was dragged into the spotlight several times, hugged, embraced and name-checked. The drummer came out front to sing lead on a song and the drum & bass tech stood in on drums, again with huge acknowledgement. (It was a great gig, and what a great self-effacing frontman Justin is!)

[Terry M.]

Backing tracks on a live gig? Not my cup of tea. 

[Beedster]

It shouldn’t matter at all

 

 

 

But it does

[prowla]

I think the musicians should be on stage.

There are circumstances where it's OK to use backing tracks, especially for studio-only sections or samples.

Some bands use pedals, pads, or other widgets to trigger sounds (I even had a siren pedal for one song we did in our school band).

I've got a couple of synth pedals (eg. the EH "9" series) which can fill out the sound, but might not be obvious as being played.

It's OK to have backing tracks in videos which are sync'd with the music.

And then you have the solo singers who use a backing track.

I can't be doing with miming though!

[SteveXFR]

Maybe if the band recently lost a member then while they look for a replacement, a recorded part would be a good way to deal with it while they find a replacement. Last night though, I don't think that was the case, there was too much on backing tracks for that, unless they'd just lost three members. 

[Beedster]

Fine in some genres, not in others

[Cato]

It's a fine line.

 

One of my favourite bands in the 90s was Carter USM who I saw a few times as a duo.

 

Their set up was live guitars and vocals everything else was pre recorded backing tracks, but they still had a great live energy in their performances.

 

At the other end of the spectrum I saw Kiss live on the Unholy tour, which to be fair, seemed to be mostly live but when they played 'God gave Rock n Roll to you' not only were there backing tracks but I'm pretty sure there was also some miming along to perfect vocal harmonies and the whole performance had a sort of 'Top of the Pops' feel to it which stuck out like a sore thumb in the rest of the set.

 

I couldn't really say why the Carter thing worked for me while the Kiss thing didn't.

Edited yesterday at 18:34 by Cato

[Leonard Smalls]

Weeds use a backing track live which gives a slightly ambient but rhythmic sequence made up of 5 or 6 different sounds. That gives the speed and length of the songs (they all start with sequence) but the meat is still bass, electric drums, vox and 2 guitars. But the sequence is an integral part of the sound, and we don't want 6 people on stage!

Luckily, we don't play often - though we're currently hoping to play in Chester later in the year...

[Terry M.]

I saw the British 80s soul band Loose Ends warm up for another act late last year. They basically did a karaoke of their hits to quite a packed audience. I love them but I didn't enjoy that.

[Terry M.]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

Fine in some genres, not in others

Can you elaborate on this please?

Actually I've thought about this and agree.

Edited Sunday at 09:26 by Terry M.

[Rosie C]

10 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

What's the opinion on this?

 

Right now I'm in the middle of learning to use a synth (Roland rack-mount XV-3080). I have a plan to send MIDI files to it to add additional sounds when playing live. So effectively using backing tracks. In the 'studio' my partner sings BV and plays percussion. I multi-track vocals, mandolin, recorder, accordion and bass. On stage that's clearly impossible. For larger gigs we have friends who join us on keys and double bass, but many gigs there's just two of us which gives two problems:

1. if we've just sing a ballad (2x vocal, mandolin and percussion) then change to an instrumental (recorder+percussion) the energy drops and the sound is very thin
2.  many of our songs have an 8 bar instrumental intro. Playing it on recorder then quickly popping the recorder under my arm to play mando and sing is an amusing party trick, but always means a 2-bar percussion fill-in as I swap. 

For (2) I'm thinking to have the intro played on the synth from a MIDI file. I can strum overtop on mandolin. For (1) we can add harpsichord/acoustic guitar/etc. harmony. For both probably add a kick drum to synchronise us. We'll also have a 2-octave MIDI keyboard and an electric drum pad on stage with us so we can play the synth live. But in all cases be honest with the audience - that two people isn't enough to play some tunes well, so we have some assistance. We haven't tried it on an audience yet, but I think it's fine as long as we're honest. 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:43 by Rosie C

[BassBiscuit]

Did you like what you were hearing?

Was what you were hearing good?

Was what you were hearing well executed?

 

If yes, yes and yes then it doesn't matter..!

Some of the best bands on the planet don't do it all 'live on stage'... But it's still them....!!

[Rich]

Many many years ago my band played support to A Famous Vocal Quartet Who Had A Big Hit In The 70s. There were only the four of them on stage, two were strumming guitars, and they sounded great... but I heard their soundcheck and absolutely everything was on the backing track except the one lead vocal. Not a note from those guitars, and although there were some live BVs the majority of those were on the tape too. It was karaoke writ large. 

[Merton]

Did a gig last month and the support band was a drummer and a singer. Everything else was on track. It was weird!

We are contemplating using tracks to add some of the more esoteric instruments which appear on the album as it’s cheaper than creating a 10 piece band with musicians appearing for a song or two… 🤓

[Cat Burrito]

I play in a goth duo where we play everything between us. Acoustic gigs are 100% live but the electric shows are very much backing we have recorded on an IPad with us playing along. I have been playing since 1988 and never dreamt I would do this. Ever. We formed this duo over lockdown and I was inspired by several new bands that I like doing the same. 

 

Let me tell those who are cynical, it's a discipline in its own right. Good musicians cover one another. If the track is going into a chorus at bar 60, the singer best not have come in late! Good monitors are key too because you HAVE to hear it and it isn't like playing with a live drummer.

 

I don't doubt in more traditional genres, it would seem odd or out of place but it seems appropriate for this genre. I think it has improved my playing and I like that nearly 37yrs later, I still find ways to challenge myself. 

[warwickhunt]

I play in a Cheap Trick and an INXS tribute.

 

Cheap Trick is meant to be raw but we were still surprised that fellow musicians on a multi-bill gig couldn't believe we had no vox on track or that we were doing things like Dream Police without backing of any sort.  

 

INXS has one song where the drummer triggers a tambourine sample (too much to play the drum part and keep that going in real time).  However... I am loathed to add a backing track of orchestra type sounds to a suggested new song (Baby Don't Cry), I feel it would be the thin end of the wedge.  Several of the band think that if it adds to the audience's experience it is fine; defo thin ice IMHO.  LOL 

[Mykesbass]

A few years ago I had the pleasure of working on an album by The Sounds of Blackness. They came over to perform at the Royal Festival Hall as part of the London Jazz Festival. They performed as a 16 piece on that stage, but are, on their biggest gigs a 60 piece outfit. 

 

We had to set up a TV appearance and a live radio show while they were here. I asked Gary Hines, their MD (and a fabulous human being) what they could do. He showed me his carry on bag that accompanied hime everywhere. In it he had backing tracks so they could perform from 4 singers up to 30+. He also had the tracks on CD, DAT and standard cassette.

 

As @Beedster says, it depends on genre. It certainly worked very well in this case.

[BigRedX]

My band uses backing tracks.

 

It enables us to get the whole band plus all our gear and merch in one car for travelling to gigs. It means we can fit in spaces on stage that more conventional bands wouldn't. We've picked up gigs at decent venues supporting much better known bands simply because of our smaller than usual stage footprint.

 

Our backing replaces a drummer and a second synth player. While I know a couple of drummers with sufficient technical ability to replace the programmed drums neither are interested in playing our genre of music, and the synth parts are basically technical challenging but very repetitive or just the occasional sound effect/texture and are far better handled by a machine rather than a human being.

 

Besides most bands I see using programmed or recorded backing have far more on the backing tracking than necessary. IMO even with backing tracks playing live is not about perfectly reproducing what is on the recording. I'm always paring down our backing to just what I think is essential for us to preform the song live. Most of the songs only have drums and very minimal second synth.

 

I'm been in bands for almost 45 years now that have used some form of non-human element to play some of the parts. My standard response to anyone who complains about this is to ask them if they are interested in joining the band as a replacement for the tape/machine(s). Unsurprisingly I have yet to have someone take up my offer.

[neepheid]

People can do what they want and I'm not dissing them for it, but my take is that save for intros to songs, I don't really like hearing things I can't equate to someone doing something on stage. Bigger shows that's maybe harder to prove, but down the Dog and Duck it's glaringly obvious and I don't care for it.

[Terry M.]

39 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

My standard response to anyone who complains about this is to ask them if they are interested in joining the band as a replacement for the tape/machine(s). Unsurprisingly I have yet to have someone take up my offer.

Are these individuals you ask this of other musicians? I think it's just personal preference at the end of the day. Some don't mind it and others do. There is no right or wrong. And is it a rhetorical question or not? Would you be able to budget for anybody who might say yes? 

Edited Sunday at 10:40 by Terry M.

[neepheid]

36 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

My band uses backing tracks.

 

It enables us to get the whole band plus all our gear and merch in one car for travelling to gigs. It means we can fit in spaces on stage that more conventional bands wouldn't. We've picked up gigs at decent venues supporting much better known bands simply because of our smaller than usual stage footprint.

 

Our backing replaces a drummer and a second synth player. While I know a couple of drummers with sufficient technical ability to replace the programmed drums neither are interested in playing our genre of music, and the synth parts are basically technical challenging but very repetitive or just the occasional sound effect/texture and are far better handled by a machine rather than a human being.

 

Besides most bands I see using programmed or recorded backing have far more on the backing tracking than necessary. IMO even with backing tracks playing live is not about perfectly reproducing what is on the recording. I'm always paring down our backing to just what I think is essential for us to preform the song live. Most of the songs only have drums and very minimal second synth.

 

I'm been in bands for almost 45 years now that have used some form of non-human element to play some of the parts. My standard response to anyone who complains about this is to ask them if they are interested in joining the band as a replacement for the tape/machine(s). Unsurprisingly I have yet to have someone take up my offer.

 

Well, I wouldn't be so crass as to complain in person to you about it.  We're all musicians at the end of the day, you do it your way and I'll do it mine.  Anyway, if I was ever to attend one of your gigs, it would be check you out (musically speaking, not in a pervy way, lol), and the rest of it would be of secondary concern to me.

[Lozz196]

I’m not bothered by it but it wouldn’t be for me, was briefly helping out a band that were trying it and nah, not my bag.

[jezzaboy]

I know a rock band who play theatres across the UK who have the keyboards on a backing track and the rest of the band have it in their in ears. They have a keyboard "player" on stage who pretends to play though 

[Doctor J]

I'm of the opinion that studio is one thing and live is another. The studio is for dressing up a song in whatever garnish it needs to sound as good as it can be, for the rest of time, in passive listening situations. Live is for the musicians on the stage to perform a unique interpretation of the song and conveying the energy and emotion of the evening and environment into the performance. They're very different situations and they shouldn't sound the same. You shouldn't even try to make them sound the same. Backing tracks take away from the live performance experience. Give me perfection in the studio, passion on the stage. Imagine Live At Leeds sounding like the records, it's wrong, wrong, wrong 😂