How much backing track is too much?

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Terry M. said:

Are these individuals you ask this of other musicians? I think it's just personal preference at the end of the day. Some don't mind it and others do. There is no right or wrong. And is it a rhetorical question or not? Would you be able to budget for anybody who might say yes? 

 

1 hour ago, neepheid said:

Well, I wouldn't be so crass as to complain in person to you about it.  We're all musicians at the end of the day, you do it your way and I'll do it mine.  Anyway, if I was ever to attend one of your gigs, it would be check you out (musically speaking, not in a pervy way, lol), and the rest of it would be of secondary concern to me.

 

These "complaints" mostly occurred in the 90s with a band that went through numerous line-ups some that included a drummer and others that didn't, and therefore I assumed that the people complaining were drummers angling for a job. Interestingly no-one ever complained about the keyboards being on the backing which applied at all the line-ups but one where we had to drop quite a few well-loved songs because the the synth player, despite being a considerably more accomplished player than me, was unable to recreate several of the keyboard parts to the standard that was required to make the songs sound decent.

 

It's not been a problem with the current band because in the goth/post-punk genre some form of programmed or recorded backing is perfectly acceptable I come across more bands currently gigging with backing tracks than those who play completely live.

[PaulWarning]

never happy when I see an artist using backing tracks, I just think why stop at drums/keyboards/bass or whatever, why not have the whole thing as a backing track? but hey, that's just me ymmv

[Owen]

For me, any is too much. I want to see musicians interacting. That is where it is at. But I am fully aware that what I want is not what everyone wants. 

 

And when it goes wrong, it is grim. We did West Side Story at work (FE college). The Perf Arts dept needed a band. I was young and foolish. How hard can it be? I downloaded it all on MIDI files, tabbed it out through Logic and off we went. WSS guitar, bass and drums. But I had a piano track on CD becaue the potential for disaster was too much. I was not THAT foolish. We had a silent pit and the guy running playback/monitor was stoned. On the CD the tune before the Act 1 finale segued into "Tonight". The stoned guy heard the number before Tonight slowing down and ending so hit stop.The actual track continued on the CD, Tonight starting at 2:36. There was no way he could cue that up. There was a pregnant pause and I started to sing accapela. The cast did the whole routine accapela, dance moves to the non existent orchestral hits and all. In retrospect it was comedy gold. The on stage energy levels went throught the roof. 

[SteveXFR]

6 hours ago, BassBiscuit said:

Did you like what you were hearing?

Was what you were hearing good?

Was what you were hearing well executed?

 

If yes, yes and yes then it doesn't matter..!

Some of the best bands on the planet don't do it all 'live on stage'... But it's still them....!!

 

No, meh and meh

 

 

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Owen said:

And when it goes wrong, it is grim. We did West Side Story at work (FE college). The Perf Arts dept needed a band. I was young and foolish. How hard can it be? I downloaded it all on MIDI files, tabbed it out through Logic and off we went. WSS guitar, bass and drums. But I had a piano track on CD becaue the potential for disaster was too much. I was not THAT foolish. We had a silent pit and the guy running playback/monitor was stoned. On the CD the tune before the Act 1 finale segued into "Tonight". The stoned guy heard the number before Tonight slowing down and ending so hit stop.The actual track continued on the CD, Tonight starting at 2:36. There was no way he could cue that up. There was a pregnant pause and I started to sing accapela. The cast did the whole routine accapela, dance moves to the non existent orchestral hits and all. In retrospect it was comedy gold. The on stage energy levels went throught the roof. 

 

That sounds to me like you were insufficiently rehearsed and put your faith in the ability of people who weren't part of the band and intoxicated to be able control the music. 

 

You'd have had an equally disastrous outcome if any one of the musicians had been intoxicated. 

 

When any of the bands I've been in have used programmed or recorded backing we practice for every contingency we can think of. For the bands where the backing is just "icing" we have practiced playing the songs without it. For the others when something goes wrong in rehearsal we don't stop but play on and work out how to get out of the problem, such as the singer missing their cue or coming in early, so if it happens at a gig we'll get through it and only those in the audience who know the songs inside-out might notice that something went awry. We also control the backing from the stage and have the ability to do so without it being obvious to the audience.

[Dood]

If I went on tour playing the last album I played on, we’d need about 100 musicians on stage alone. (Think Devin Townsend’s The Moth), so, in that case, it’d be impossible to perform on considerably smaller budgets (considering the players on it) unless elements, such as The City Of Prague Philharmonic (and choir) were distilled in to recorded parts (as much as I’d rather they weren’t!) So, I can see why sometimes backing tracks support the production.

 

At the other end of the scale, Dave and Miranda who perform big band classics at the Dog & Duck on a Tuesday night aren’t going to have access to Sinatra’s backing band. Backing tracks there too.

 

I guess it’s a question of what feels honest? Does the audience feel they are being hoodwinked rather than “getting their moneys worth?) 

[joeystrange]

15 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

Tonight I saw a metal band who had a guitarist,singer, drummer and bassist on stage. Throughout their set, I could clearly hear a second guitar (lead), synth, backing vocals and possibly extra drums. It was all their own original music. 

It seemed like too much of what I was hearing wasn't live. What's the opinion on this?

Depends on the situation. With modern metal bands it’s 100% normal to have a fair amount on track. Even the really big bands do it and it’s just accepted.

 

However if your average punk band turned up with tracks it wouldn’t go down well.

[TimR]

Most of the audience wouldn't have a clue.

 

A lot of them don't know the difference between the electric guitar and the bass. It all just merges into one sound, or it should, it's only musicians who can tell. And that's how it should be. It's the curse of learning an instrument that you'll never hear a band the same way again.

 

My brother was in a band where he played the keys, they sacked the drummer (for various reasons) and my brother moved onto drums and they put the keys on backing tracks. It was OK, but very hard work and there's no adlibbing, room to move the tempo, or make any mistakes. 

 

I was in a band where the guitarist wanted to record loads of overdubs and layers, but we vetoed it citing we wouldn't be able to recreate it live.

 

I wouldn't do it.

 

I suppose if you're promoting an album then you'd want the live versions to be representative, but as above, maybe get additional musicians if you want the band to sound like it has additional musicians. Even a keys player can create an orchestra now. 

[Norris]

Coming back to the OP, I don't think a metal band is quite the genre for making heavy use of a backing track. However the Pink Floyd tribute I played with for a while couldn't possibly have done without one (we were aiming for sounding just like PF recordings)

[Lozz196]

31 minutes ago, TimR said:

Most of the audience wouldn't have a clue.

 

A lot of them don't know the difference between the electric guitar and the bass. It all just merges into one sound, or it should, it's only musicians who can tell. And that's how it should be. It's the curse of learning an instrument that you'll never hear a band the same way again.

 

 

Ain’t that the truth. I often wish I could just listen to a song without mentally separating the instruments and listening out specifically for the bass. Too late now though.

[SteveXFR]

32 minutes ago, Norris said:

Coming back to the OP, I don't think a metal band is quite the genre for making heavy use of a backing track. However the Pink Floyd tribute I played with for a while couldn't possibly have done without one (we were aiming for sounding just like PF recordings)

 

Synth for a bit of atmosphere and maybe some odd apocalyptic noises definitely works in metal 

[SimonK]

It's a performance - so long as they put on a good show who cares!

 

I do admit, however, that it's not fair to call yourself a live act and then mime playing, but so long as the vocals and maybe lead parts are live that's probably enough to inject the energy of a performance into an event.

[SteveXFR]

8 minutes ago, SimonK said:

It's a performance - so long as they put on a good show who cares!

 

I do admit, however, that it's not fair to call yourself a live act and then mime playing, but so long as the vocals and maybe lead parts are live that's probably enough to inject the energy of a performance into an event.

 

The rhythm guitar was played live, lead was on the backing track. That didn't seem right to me

[SimonK]

6 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

The rhythm guitar was played live, lead was on the backing track. That didn't seem right to me

 

I agree - that would feel a bit odd to me - but not the other way round!

[TimR]

6 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

The rhythm guitar was played live, lead was on the backing track. That didn't seem right to me

 

I know a keyboard player who programed the whole of Bruce Honsby and the Range, That's the way it is, into his Korg and then mimed every time they played it. Kudos! 

[TheLowDown]

I would mind less if bands were upfront about what exactly is live about the concert.

[Dood]

A "I love coming to see this band, they're so good"

B "There's always a good atmosphere at this venue!"

A "So do you come see the band a lot?"

B "I'm... I play the bass.."

*Tumbleweed*

[Lozz196]

2 minutes ago, Dood said:

A "I love coming to see this band, they're so good"

B "There's always a good atmosphere at this venue!"

A "So do you come see the band a lot?"

B "I'm... I play the bass.."

*Tumbleweed*

Happened to me.

 

You weren’t Man A were you?

[Dood]

Just now, Lozz196 said:

Happened to me.

 

You weren’t Man A were you?

 

I think it has happened to the best of us my friend! I mean, it's not as if we aren't immediately recognisable. I'd be sh*t out of luck if I had to be in an ID parade! 

[Dad3353]

How about the lighting..? Can that be pre-programmed..? I had the whole 'Kiemsa' set on my laptop, in the right order, and much of it was automatic. I would do particular stabs and flashes, and some of the 'black-outs', but wouldn't have enough fingers and thumbs to do all of the Fx manually. It worked very well, for several years; no-one insisted that the lights be done all by hand. Is there any difference..? It's all part of the performance, no..? 

[TimR]

38 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

How about the lighting..? Can that be pre-programmed..? I had the whole 'Kiemsa' set on my laptop, in the right order, and much of it was automatic. I would do particular stabs and flashes, and some of the 'black-outs', but wouldn't have enough fingers and thumbs to do all of the Fx manually. It worked very well, for several years; no-one insisted that the lights be done all by hand. Is there any difference..? It's all part of the performance, no..? 

 

Did the band have to stay in time with the lights? 

[Dad3353]

7 minutes ago, TimR said:

Did the band have to stay in time with the lights? 

 

No, the lights stayed in time with the band. 

[TimR]

58 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

No, the lights stayed in time with the band. 

 

So that's the opposite to backing tracks. The band are in control of the timing even after you press go, and the lights aren't dictating whether you're playing another verse or chorus. 

[Dad3353]

6 minutes ago, TimR said:

So that's the opposite to backing tracks. The band are in control of the timing even after you press go, and the lights aren't dictating whether you're playing another verse or chorus. 

 

Almost. The drummer is, for the most part, playing to a 'click' track, so, although there are solo spots and (much..!) improvisation, the whole show is pretty strictly timed, with short 'free' passages in between numbers. If the spots don't fall on the right person at the right time, the effect is lost, and if the frontman changes his posture (leaning forward menacingly into an eery green footlight...) when it's on, it can't be rolled back. It's a matter of 'loose' synchronising, along with pre-planning for all concerned. Much like a lot of backing tracks, I think. 

[BigRedX]

We have the facility to extend sections of our backing track should we want to. However we have yet to use it at an actual gig. Likewise when I have been in bands that were totally live we rarely changed the length or structure the songs on the fly, and if we did it was because someone had messed up and it was a chance for us all the catch up and get back in sync, not because we thought the song could do with being a bit longer.

 

Currently my band is in the enviable position that we have more songs that we would like to play, and more importantly that our audience want to hear, than will fit in a typical sub-45 minute set, so we would much rather play another song than extend a couple of the others, and I think our audience would prefer that too.